Look at the top managers today and tell me if you ever remember hearing their names as top players.Arsen wenger the best in the game right now........never heard of him.ferguson......who!Youmay be better off asking what top footballers became top managers,you can count them on one hand.

Good post.

Sorry the answer is yes.Both Wenger and Ferguson played professionally so they were above the norm.They weren,t outstanding but you have to have played at at least good semi pro level or pro youth level to get the early insights in to the game and to have been in a serious football culture..Ferguson did play for Scotland.So he couldn,t have been too bad!!
However there,s the odd exception to the rule Jose Mourhinio was no great shakes but his father was a pro coach so he lived and breathed professional coaching from an early age.
However not many great players become successful coaches maybe it came too easily to them and they didn,t have to analyse their play and work on their game.
All managers and coaches in the English leagues from Premier down to conference played professionally at some level.
However there is always an exception to the rule and I ,ve probably missed the odd one that wasn,t.So good luck in life if you want it bad enough anything is possible.

The idea of having to be a good footballer to be a good coach does of course apply to the standard of player that you are coaching. Under 9's learing the game is totally different to Under 16's and Grassroots football is of course different again to Academy and CofE football.
At times a coach will have to show his team how to do certain things. And of course knowing how to do these things breathes confidence when talking about it…

If we really want our kids to get the best coaching then the same applies.The most important ages in player development are from 5/6 to 15.Unfortunately because there,s not much money in it thats where we often get the worst coaching,not always I might add.In the uk we,ve got to find a way to get quality coaching available to all kids who take up the game by ex players who know the game and are keen to be trained to transfer that knowledge.
As from my previous post being an ex player gives the coach, if he,s any good, that extra coaching knowledge and credibility

You most definitely do not have to be a good footballer to be able to coach. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise. Being a professional football player does not necessarilly make you a better player than someone who is not a professional. If that were the case why year after year do so many none league clubs progress in the FA cup at the expense of more illustrious league teams. When Teams get relegated does that make them worse than the teams that now fill their places in the league above. Becoming a pro footballer relies on many factors such as Luck, Right place, Right Time, Right face, Connections and Ability. Some of you may seem surprised but that order is probably not far off being correct.

You are right strass you do not have to be a good footballer to coach BUT you do have to be a good footballer to be a good coach.Thats why you don,t see any teachers running clubs.Those non league clubs who knock out the league clubs are coached by ex players!! And by good I mean to have at least played good semi pro or in modern times young lads who as a minimum have been through a club youth system or been at a college of F.E. academy.
As for the recruitment system for clubs I agree its pure luck but thats because the system was set up by Howard Wilkinson at the FA!! Which started selecting out at too early an age.At our local pro club academy they are using part time coaches some are good ,some are ordinary none are exceptional the exceptional ones are in the full time jobs.
Because of the academy system we have 11 yr olds travelling from the midlands to play Southampton a 5/6 hour round trip 2 hours getting change,warmed up and changing back after the game ,an hour for the meal and an hour for the game! because of "overuse". So in a 9/10 hour day they play for 1 hour.What a waste of time money and resources.On average 5/6 players from the academy system come through in to the Premier League each year.Not good enough.And YOU defend the system

Craig Brown was a school teacher and coaching Clyde.f.c and finally managed Scotland also.

So your wrong Colin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Brown_(footballer)

There are always exceptions to the rule but Craig Brown was a good player ,he chose to go the teaching route,but he was a good player.Not great but good.
Put it this way look at the worst players in the kids teams you coach and ask the question to your self will they be good coaches.99% you,d say no

Craig Brown was not good at all. Who told you this?

Thats why you don,t see any teachers running clubs

Oh. I do. So do 2 of my colleagues. We must be mistaken.

You don't have to be a good player to be a good coach. You DO have to be a good player to become a top coach is what you are saying, and I agree.

I'm not tooting my own horn, but I'm probably 4/10 playing wise, whereas I am doing L3, coached over 8 years, currently run 2 teams and a 'for all' Saturday club.

Interesting Ian. So if im reading you right are you saying that because you only rate yourself 4/10 playing wise that you are not going to be a top coach? Also are you saying that if there was a guy in your team that you rated as 8/10 then he will go on to be a better coach than you? Thats the impression im getting unless im missunderstanding you.

The biggest hinderence to you being a top coach or classed as 1 is the fact that you dont and you havent played professional football which means that it is highly unlikely that you are going to get on the A licence course and then pass it and then from 2010 you will need to have aquired your pro licence in addition to the UEFA 'A' to coach in any of our professional leagues. Another thing, if you managed to overcome that mountain of a hurdle then which club would take a chance on you since you havent played professional.

Think of the worst professional player you can imagine and then realise this fact. He stands more chance than you of managing in league or non league for that matter than you. Why? Because he has that al important fact on his cv - He has played pro football at some stage and thats enhanced even further if he hits the management trail not long after his playing days.

Gerrard Houlier has recently come out and said that in france its impossible to begin a career in management so soon after your playing days never mind combining the two roles as player manager.

Yes strass that is what I believe. I could potentially be as good a coach as Tony Carr or Bobby Robson, but I won't do it at their level. Maybe one day soon I'll get the chance to coach at the academy, but I doubt I'll ever, ever reach full time pay from working with pro's.
Some of my players are genuine 7-9 out of 10s. Will they become better coaches? That's unanswerable.
Have they more opportunity to become top coaches - if they continue playing, yes.

There are many top coaches who are probably not as good as the better grassroots coaches, and I always wonder when a young manager goes in straight from playing(eg Southgate), how many ideas they have.

Ian
I meant teachers running league clubs

So you think that you are capable of being as good a coach as an England manager!! Self belief is very important in your coaching as it breeds confidence from you to your players, but you have to draw the line somewhere. If you are as good a coach as you say you are then get yourself into your local academies or centre of excellences and start working with the better players and you will get noticed as a quality coach and then see how you rate.

I do agree with your statement about past professional players and believe that some non league and lower professional league managers given the same budget etc could do a better job than the likes of Bryan Robson. The reputation gets them the job but it certainly doesn't keep them the job or in the league

I could be, but I'll never know. I'm currently working with some excellent footballers in my own team at u15s. Every week they are watched by pro clubs, and play against teams with many ex academy players and potential future pro's. I would like to work in an academy/CoE, but the players will only be marginally better - and it will add to my coaching experience, but perhaps not enhance it.
Maybe if I pass L3 this year a window may open.

Colin - are you changing the arguement AGAIN??? Teachers cannot run league clubs because, hang on, full time bloody job man!

In this day and age teachers who work full time could possibly not work as a manager for a professional football team. But they could easy work for an amateur team.

Course you dont need to be a good player to be a good coach.

"You don't have to be a good player to be a good coach. You DO have to be a good player to become a top coach is what you are saying, and I agree". says ian

Again i disagree. The likes of Sir Alex he was an ok player same as Sven and Arsene.

"Sir Alex he was an OK player"

1957-1960 Queens Park 32 games and 11 goals
1960–1964 St Johnstone 37 games 19 goals
1964–1967 Dunfermline Athletic 88 games and 66 goals
1967–1969 Rangers 41 games and 25 goals
1969–1973 Falkirk 106 games and 37 goals
1973–1974 Ayr United 24 games and 9 goals
Careet totals: 327 games 167 goals.

Only an OK player?!

For small teams? bar Rangers

All jokes aside, I'm sure there aren't many that have such a fantastic goalscoring record in Scottish football. I think anyone that becomes a professional footballer has to have something, and to be a pro at the top level in Scotland (when it was apparently stronger back then too) makes him a top player of the time. I know Manchester United desperately tried to sign him at the time aswell, so he mustn't of been bad.

Think of all those that try to make it as a professional. If you can make a full time career out of it then you have got to have been more than an OK player in my book.

Ian forget the teacher example its over your head and I,m losing the will to live trying to uplift your understanding.
Why are we getting side lined with Ferguson.His playing career which was just above ordinary meant that he had insights in to the game that other non players don,t get.
Even if he had played for Ossett Town he would still be a better coach than someone who hadn,t played at any level

As a player he won 0. Got close and Man United did not want him as a player nottingham forest did

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Ferguson#Playing_career

You don't seem to often look at the big picture G Man!

Would you say Alan Shearer was a good player? I don't think he has a bulging trophy cabinet.

Do you know for a fact Man U didn't want him? Wikipedia dosen't give the answer to everything! According to his autobiography (granted, a biased view) and according to Matt Busby he tried many times to bring Ferguson to Old Trafford.

Ian - playing career just above ordinary?! It's a VERY subjective game (one of the games plus points) but I cannot believe he was just above ordinary with a record like that.

Shearer only won the league for Blackburn on his own. Who were they then? Shearer made them win that league.

And shearer played at top football. Ferguson played in scotland. Enough said

OK I'm struggling to open your eyes if you aren't going to be slightly open minded without instantly dismissing my points.

I disagree regarding Shearer winning Blackburn the title for sure. And I think Ferguson was (granted, I haven't seen him play) a top player. Just try to think of how many thousands and millions of us have not made it as a professional footballer. Those that make it to Premier League, or even to SPL level must surely be above average. Is there no merit in my point at all?