You suffered when Keane went. Just like we have since Vieira went.

Do you think this Carrick bloke or the frilly haired Canadian will do that role justice (if he joins)?

Exactly O Dogg. When I saw the first leg of Milans Qtr Final against Bayern I was hoping that we would get Milan providing we qualified. They looked off the pace, were sloppy and tired very easily. If only they played like that against United!

Not in a million years. Neither could ever live up to Keane in my opinion. Keane was something special. Gattuso reminded me so much of him the other day in the way he wanted to win, and wasn't going to let anything stop him. He had the same guts and determination that Keane showed. Different players, but both with so much heart and talent.

Unfortunately, as good as Carrick and Hargreaves are, neither are world beaters. Simple as.

I'm not sure now but when there was the game Milan - Lille, weren't Milan already qualified, they were?

It's not only this year that Lille succeed in Italy.

CL qualification round 2001 Parma Ac 0-2 Lille
Uefa cup 2001 Fiorentina 0-1 Lille
CL 2006 Ac Milan 0-2 Lille

is it not possible that Lille had a game who make problems to italian teams ?

Of course they were

Milan ac was qualified but there is a difference of budget between Milan Ac and Lille.

And even if you are qualified, when you are a club you had to please the supporters and the fans who paid a ticket to watch this match, it's a duty. And the clubs win some money from uefa when they win a match in CL.

Actually you are right, and Milan did have an almost 2nd string side out - so my example was actually a poor one, but you get the picture. My point is teams cannot always be great. Teams have offdays, and even great teams get brought down to earth with a bang.

Sure, I agree with that, but Man Utd have consistently underachieved in Europe, SAF admits this. If you're a great European side, surely you must do better than 1 European Cup in 21 years? Actually, that's just Fergie's record, it's only 2 wins in your entire history, and no other finals.

I respect United as one of Europe's great clubs. But their record in the European Cup isn't great.

I don't think many will disagree with that either.
I mean just look at this seaon in Europe - we lost 4 games.
We lost to FC Copenhagen and Celtic in the group stages. Underestimating our opposition which has been a problem for United in Europe for years!

Came up against Roma, lost 2-1... didn't play well. Luckily they didnt turn up at Old Trafford, and United turned it on.

So I think most United fans will agree with you. We are frustrated that we cannot perform in Europe like we can in the league. Maybe it is down to Fergie....I dont know. He has got it wrong on many occasions in Europe - so he needs to take some of the blame.

I personally don't think we will win another Champions League trophy whilst Fergie is in charge. I love Fergie, don't get me wrong, and I think he is the best manager in the premiership domestically - however I think on the European Stage there are better. He tends to build his squad around the premiership, which has been successful over the years.

They have won a cup winner cup in 1991. The first year the english clubs came back in european cups, i was jealous.

I don't think it was a bad european season for MU this year. How many matchs have they done with their stadium full ? i think it was a success. And they have done a great score against Roma.

I think it is a deception for the MU fans only because they want to do better than the other english clubs in this CL, they want to be the first. But there is no reason to be sad, it was a good european season for MU.

I agree that in the end we over acheived in Europe in as much as reaching the Semi Finals....wouldn't have thought it possible after last seasons lame effort - however I seriously think that result against Milan really brought us back down to earth with a bang.

If Fergie really wants to get another European trophy before retiring, then he will need to get his cheque book out and bolster our squad a bit, becuase there are too many players that cannot cut it against the best.

Im still happy with the progress we have made this season however, and will be delighted if/when United land the premiership trophy this season. That was the one we really wanted!

Spot on, and I believe you'll get it this weekend.
Although I was in wind up mode the other day, my "is Fergie overrated?" thread was a legitimate debate in that a lot of people view him as the greatest British manager of all time, but his European record haunts him. Cloughie and Paisley conquered Europe, United didn't under SAF. He is the greatest premiership manager though, no question.

For me the main problem of Man Utd is when they play away in the Champions League. I don't know which is the reason but they don't play at the same level that they do at home, where they play really well. Other british teams like Liverpool or Chelsea do better away because they are more defensive and then is easier to try to play away being a defensive team than an offensive team, like is Man Utd. And Arsenal didn't qualify for the final rounds till last season. When they played offensive football then they weren't succesfull in the Champions. But last season they were defensive and they played the final.