They should ban Hamilton and his father from Formula One

The 2 Free Practice sessions on Friday are over and Ferrari look very very good at Magny-Cours as usual. I hope for a Ferrari 1-2. But we should wait for Quali to get over to see where everyone are at...

Here are the timesheets...

FP1:



FP2:

Vamos Fernando!

Qualifying for French GP is over and here is the results...



NOTE: Both Hamilton and Rosberg are to be demoted 10 places for tomorrow's race due to the penalty they got in Canada for causing that pitlane accident. Also Heikki Kovalainen is being penalised with a 5-place grid penalty for tomorrow's race as he impeded Webber during today's qualifying. For info on that check autosport.com

So the starting order for Tomorrow's race should be Kimi, Massa, Alonso, Trulli, Kubica, Webber, Coulthard, Glock, Piquet, Kovalainen for the top 10. Lewis will be starting from 13th...

well , Lewis Hamilton is finding things tough at the moment , no points again and another incident in the race he was penalised for , think he needs to just get on with it ....he moaned about the britsih press again having a go at him .

The British Grand Prix next , a Lewis Hamilton win would get his season bacl on track ..he is still well in contention for the drivers title ..

Can someone tell me why Kimi didn't get black flagged or why the stewards didn't order him into the pit to take care of that dangling exhaust issue? The thing was dandling by a wire harness and eventually flew off in the final quarter of the race. But from my understanding of the rules, is that any lose part that has a potential to fall off and be a hazard to other drivers needs to be dealt with?

well i hope that puts all the Lewis Hamilton haters in their place , a super win from the british driver at his home Grand Prix . He handled everything superbly well over the last week and yesterday showed that he is very much still in contention for the drivers championship .


Well done Lewis and keep it up ....

Qualifying for German GP at Hockenheim is over.

Starting Grid for tomorrow's race:

Pos No Driver Team Q1 Q2 Q3 Laps
1 22 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:15.218 1:14.603 1:15.666 13
2 2 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:14.921 1:14.747 1:15.859 16
3 23 Heikki Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes 1:15.476 1:14.855 1:16.143 17
4 11 Jarno Trulli Toyota 1:15.560 1:15.122 1:16.191 21
5 5 Fernando Alonso Renault 1:15.917 1:14.943 1:16.385 19
6 1 Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari 1:15.201 1:14.949 1:16.389 19
7 4 Robert Kubica BMW Sauber 1:15.985 1:15.109 1:16.521 20
8 10 Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 1:15.900 1:15.481 1:17.014 20
9 15 Sebastian Vettel STR-Ferrari 1:15.532 1:15.420 1:17.244 22
10 9 David Coulthard Red Bull-Renault 1:15.975 1:15.338 1:17.503 20
11 12 Timo Glock Toyota 1:15.560 1:15.508 17
12 3 Nick Heidfeld BMW Sauber 1:15.596 1:15.581 14
13 7 Nico Rosberg Williams-Toyota 1:15.863 1:15.633 16
14 16 Jenson Button Honda 1:15.993 1:15.701 15
15 14 Sebastien Bourdais STR-Ferrari 1:15.927 1:15.858 15
16 8 Kazuki Nakajima Williams-Toyota 1:16.083 10
17 6 Nelsinho Piquet Renault 1:16.189 7
18 17 Rubens Barrichello Honda 1:16.246 10
19 20 Adrian Sutil Force India-Ferrari 1:16.657 10
20 21 Giancarlo Fisichella Force India-Ferrari 1:16.963 10

What a great race it turned out to be

how does lewis always manage to f*ck something up?

Superb race from Massa. His best until now and I'm really gutted for him. What a famous victory it'd have been and he'd be leading the WDC and Ferrari would be leading the WCC by 23 points now instead of 11. Unlucky for Lewis too, but his driving style do tend to wear tyres a lot due to huge lockups of the front tyres.

Whatever the result is the Championship is going to go down to Interlagos and its too close to call between the top 3 drivers and the top 2 teams. Let's enjoy the title race...

they both have 4 wins each now i think , Hamilton did extend his championship lead ...although only by 1 point . Whatever people think of Hamilton ..he is british and i will be rooting for him for the remainder of the season ...still a long way to go though .

McLaren's Lewis Hamilton was stripped of a dramatic victory in the Belgian Grand Prix after stewards handed him a 25-second post-race penalty.

The Englishman was demoted to third place behind Ferrari's Felipe Massa and BMW Sauber's Nick Heidfeld.

He was accused of gaining an advantage by cutting the Spa circuit's Bus Stop chicane in a late-race battle with Ferrari's Kimi Raikkonen.

Hamilton's lead over Massa in the title chase has been cut to two points.


Personally i don't like lewis but to be fair he did give the place back

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hamilton.

C'mon Massa!

Yes he did give the place. But he gained an advantage by cutting the chicane. If you watch the videos on youtube(even a Hamilton onboard) you'll find that he had a choice before cutting the chicane.

Due to the superior grip level of that Mclaren in the wet conditions and on the hard tyres, Hamilton was able to close Kimi before the bus stop Chicane. But he was not close enough to make a move on the inside. So he out-braked Kimi and went on the outside for the first corner. If he had made the move stick, he'd have the inside line for the second corner of the Chicane. But since Kimi had the faster racing line throughout the chicane, He went ahead in the middle of the chicane and defended well by closing the door on Lewis fairly. This is where Lewis had a choice to make.

Choice 1: He could've stood on the brakes as he was moving in a straight-line at that point in time being in the middle of the Chicane and lined up behind Kimi. But by doing this, he would've lost the momentum he had going into the chicane and compromised his exit speed thus allowing Kimi to have the optimal exit. So by doing this he'd be nowhere in a position to take Kimi at the La Source Hairpin but since his Mclaren was extremely good in that conditions, he could've made a move at the Eau Rouge or at the end of the Kemmel Straight. This is what he should've done normally.

Choice 2: He can cut the Chicane thus carrying his momentum(without losing any) he had while entering the Chicane. Since he overtook a car by cutting the chicane, he had to give the place back to Kimi thus negating any advantage. The normal way is giving the place back immediately by lifting thus losing the momentum advantage he had by cutting the chicane. Then he should've lined up behind Kimi without slipstreaming(because that is not giving back the advantage gained).

Both Choices are legal and Hamilton chose Choice 2. But he was a bit cheeky in that he didn't lift enough and he didn't tuck behind Kimi. He was on the left side of Kimi for the entire straight and he braked early in the braking zone so that Kimi got past him and he dived to the inside line. This is blatantly gaining an advantage. There is a precedent to this. In 2005(Couldn't remember which race it was. I'll look it up), Alonso did a similar thing to Klien in that he cut the Chicane to get infront of Klein and he did give it back in such a way that he overtook Klein immediately after giving the place(Like Lewis did yesterday). But He was then ordered by race control to again give the place back to Klien for the second time and try to pass him fairly. So Alonso had to give the place back and then again overtake Klien. So what Hamilton did was breaking the rules and the standard penalty for this is a drive-through. But since the race was over, 25s was added to his time(as a drive through will take that much time approx.).

I'll say this. It was a great race and a fantastic battle between Kimi and Lewis. Though I'm of a fan of Lewis, I'll praise him for all his efforts and his driving. Sometimes things happen in a split-second and it might seem right at that instant, but it might be wrong after it is reviewed. I think the decision was a fair one and I really praise the Stewards for making such a decision(As I wouldn't want to be in their shoes while making that decision). I also realise how it must feel to take a victory away from a person after one of the dramatic race finishes in recent history.

Many people are saying that some such incidents in other races were not punished. But I'd like to point out that the Stewards are not the same persons in every race. 3 Stewards are different from race to race and so their interpretation varies. Its just like Referee's in football. One tackle may see an yellow card from one referee while the same tackle may see a red card from another referee. So no point in blaming the Stewards. They did their job and incidentally they have way more info than we have like the FIA footage in various angles, telemetry, etc. So if they say it was unfair and warrant a punishment, I'll accept their words.

At the end of the day, Massa was the biggest gainer of the day. He cut the lead to Lewis to 2 points in the WDC and now since Kimi DNFed, Ferrari must put all their efforts behind Massa now from Monza thus making Kimi the most expensive Support driver. But its going to be one hell of a fight though between Lewis and Massa. Both are motivated and both a good fast drivers. Although Massa is prone to make mistakes in wet conditions, I'd still support Massa for the WDC and I think he'll clinch it. One thing is for sure. Lewis has to be more than 4 points clear of Massa before the start of Interlagos as its a Massa special track like Turkey and it'll be extremely hard to prevent a Ferrari 1-2 there with Massa leading. So Mclaren fans must pray for a Monza win for Lewis at present. As for the WCC, I don't think Ferrari will be threatened as Kimi is more prone to take points away from Heikki and Lewis than Heikki taking points away from Kimi let alone Massa.

i know some people dont like Lewis Hamilton ...whether it is because of his decision to live in Switzerland for tax and privacy reason or just the fact he is English i dont know . I am english so i obviously want him to do well , his private life is his business .

Yesterday i thought Lewis Hamilton drove a great race and was happy when he grabbed the win in that exciting finish , i did not really see anything wrong with the actions Hamilton took when he was battling with Raikkonen . He made his choice going into that chicane ...they only have a split second to decide remember ...he was not quite able to get through so rather than hit Raikkonen Hamilton chose to cut the chicane and went in front of Raikkonen .

While i agree Hamilton could have held off before the chicane and tried a move further on , it is possible that something could have happened anywhere ..we just dont know .

He also let Raikkonen back into the lead after .....i know it was only for a second but what was Hamilton supposed to do ..let him get a two or three second advantage before he could challenge him again ...

The bosses of Formula 1 have over the last few years been trying to make the races more exciting and bringing in new rules or whatever ...etc , when the drivers do try these risky manouvres the stewards go and penalise them .. The rumours that Formula 1 is rife with corruption and certain teams are favoured within the sport will not ease with this decision ..

It is just that. Rumours. Nothing else.

I visit enough motorsport and F1 forums to know that FIA is called 'Ferrari International Aid', FIArrari, etc., etc. But people fail to note that Ferrari have also been punished. Kimi getting a drive-through at Monaco 08, Massa fined at Valencia 08, Massa black flagged at Canada 07, to name a few.

Also Conner mate, I agree that it was a split second decision. If you've read my previous post, I said that. Also note that I said Choice 2 is also legal. Where Hamilton had a problem IMO is the way he gave the place back to Kimi and snatch it back. Its like Giving a gift to a person but keeping a firm grip on the gift and then suddenly taking it away(I hope you get the picture of what I'm trying to say).

Let me put it in numbers. Lewis was about 1-2 car-lengths behind Kimi before the braking zone to the bus stop. If He'd taken Choice 1(which is the completely legal choice and noone can say anything about that), He'd have to line up behind Kimi at the Bus Stop exit with his Line compromised and lost his momentum he carried through the entry to the Bus stop by means of braking late than Kimi.Now the distance would be 0.5 car lengths at max(right behind the tail of Kimi at min). So as is normal, since Kimi is ahead, He'd be the first one to accelerate out of the exit thus increasing the distance to Lewis by more than 1-2 car-lengths because Lewis has lost his momentum due to braking in the middle of the Chicane but Kimi didn't. Thus it'll be anywhere around 3-5 car-lengths and not less than that before the braking zone for the La Source hairpin.

Now we come to Choice 2 and what Lewis did. Until the middle of the Chicane everything is the same. Lewis now realises that Kimi has closed the door and its not possible to overtake Kimi at the bus stop Exit. So instead of taking Choice 1 and standing on his brakes, he takes Choice 2 and cuts the chicane and takes the run-off area. Thus he comes ahead of Kimi which would not have happened if he'd taken choice 1. This is illegal overtaking and he has to give his place and the advantage back to Kimi. Now what is it he has to do? He has to lift his legs from the accelerator pedal and let Kimi out accelerate him(Remember still Lewis has the better momentum compared to Kimi as Kimi has just now started accelerating while Lewis still has the momentum he had during the bus stop entry). Now F1 cars are very sensitive and just lifting makes the car slow down drastically when compared to an accelerating car(Kimi's). So if he had lifted immediately after coming onto the track Kimi would've past him just after the start-finish line. But Lewis being cheeky takes advantage of the situation and he lifts just enough so that he's side by side with Kimi until just before the braking zone for La Source(remember this is a short straight and not a long one). Lewis just brakes a bit early instead of his usual style of braking late. Due to this Kimi who was now accelerating, got past him and tried to defend by going wide. The rules allows a driver to change line once for defending which is what Kimi did. But now since Lewis braked late, he simply dived to the inside(he was slow on the exit than Kimi who was taking the more optimal line). But since he had the inside, Kimi had to brake inorder to avoid hitting Lewis(but inspite of this there was contact which should give you an idea about how slow Lewis was in that exit than Kimi who's driving a car less optimal than Lewis' Mclaren). So now by letter of rules, Lewis did let Kimi pass(even if it was just for a second). But he didn't life enough to let Kimi pass earlier but he let kimi past only in the braking zone.

Now coming back to the numbers, since Lewis chose Choice 2 and decided to be cheeky, the distance between Kimi and Lewis just before the braking zone for La source is just 0.5 car-lengths(As Lewis was just about Level with Kimi's Gearbox on the left side of the track just before braking). So by braking early, Kimi shoots front due to not braking early. Now it seems as if the place is given back to Kimi but Lewis having other ideas, jumped on the inside line thus taking the place back and forcing Kimi to stand on his brakes in order to avoid collision.

So now compare Choice 1 and Choice 2(along with Lewis' decision to not lift immediately). Instead of being around 3-5 car-lengths behind, he was just 0.5 car-lengths behind at the braking zone to La Source. So now you get what I'm saying. This is why the Stewards most probably decided to punish Lewis as this is getting unfair advantage. If this was allowed to happen, then I can't imagine what will happen in the Future.

In the next race, a driver who is about 1s behind before a chicane can easily cut the chicane by carrying a lot of momentum through it, get ahead of the driver who properly turned for the chicane, then just concede the place at the next braking zone only to pass him again like Lewis did or atleast closed the gap to about 0.1-0.3s instead of the 1s it was before. Imagine what will happen then. Drivers will regularly cut the chicane left and right. It'll become much more of a farce than this.

I'd also like to give another scenario. Imagine if there was a gravel trap instead of a run-off area there(or even a wall). Then what would've Lewis done? He'll only have one Choice (i-e) Choice 1. So the fair way is to keep the car on the track by means of braking and tucking behind Kimi and not cutting the Chicane. Also please read the regulations. Its all upto the Stewards to interpret the grey area of rules and interpret whether the move was fair. So once Lewis decide to cut the Chicane, he's now entered the grey area. He'd left an open door for the Stewards to interfere and the way he let Kimi take back the place, he'd let the Stewards a reason to punish him. If this is the first time, its ok. But this is not the first time Lewis cuts a Chicane and got penalized. He was punished earlier in the season for cutting the chicane.

So IMO what Lewis did was unfair and used the advantage of cutting the chicane. The Stewards' decision were right. ALso I don't think Mclaren can appeal now as race decisions like drive-through cannot be appealed as the penalty happens during the race. Since the punishment Lewis got was officially a drive-through(which was converted to an equivalent 25s penalty since the race was over). So now Mclaren can't even appeal IMO. They have to live with it. It is tough luck, yes. It is hard to accept, yes. Us fans were robbed of an exciting finish to the race, yes. But this is fair and right IMO.

Also I'd like to add my final point. If Lewis thinks he can get away with bone-headed moves by scaring the opponents by diving to the inside line and braking late so that he can push the opponents off-road on the exit, then he's got another thing coming to him. Not all drivers will take it well and sooner or later while attempting a similar move, it's gonna end in tears. He's a WDC contender. Those days where drivers just race for the thrill of it and concentrate only on winning is long gone. The current point system rewards only the consistent driver and not the fastest driver. So DNF is a huge Penalty to give. So being a WDC contender, he has to be responsible. He could've Overtaken Kimi easily at the Eau Rouge or the end of the Kemmel straight. But he didn't do that and where it has got him? 3rd place and now Massa is right on his tail. This kinda attitude is great to watch for the fans, but it hurts the Points and WDC chances.

So now Conner mate, you get what I'm trying to say???

yeah i get what you are saying , i agree maybe that Hamilton barely gave Raikkonen the lead back before stepping on the gas and going in front again ..but then what are the rules for that specifically ..there is no actual ruling that says you have to be two car lengths apart or something i dont think ..its all down to sportsmanship i imagine .

But are all the new rules and regulations making the sport less enjoyable , you mentioned about Hamliton trying to get away with bone headed moves .....another may say they were risky or daring moves . I remember the days when Ayrton Senna , Nigel Mansell , Damon Hill were racing ...they all raced like nothing else mattered ....they sometimes took a gamble and it paid off ...sometimes it ended in tears ...the races were exciting to watch though .

Maybe i am making too much of a big deal as it is Hamilton ...still feel he was a little hard done by ..

Actually here are the rules:

Article 30.3(a) : "During practice and the race, drivers may use only the track and must at all times observe the provisions of the Code relating to driving behavior on circuits."

Appendix L chapter 4 Article 2 (g) : "The race track alone shall be used by the drivers during the race."

So as per these rules, if any driver goes off-track and gain an advantage by that is in breach of the rules. He's then prone to be penalized. I'm using the word 'gain an advantage' here loosely in order to emphasize that drivers going off-track due to unavoidable circumstances are not prone to be punished.

Let me put some more views into this...

The official rule simply states you can't go off track. There's no provision about not gaining advantage, don't try to overtake until next corner etc. etc. As it stands, it basically gives the stewards complete latitude on when and how to apply it. That is why I said the moment Lewis decided to cut the Chicane, he's at the mercy of the Stewards. SO why do it in the first place when he was already punished for that and even Heikki was punished earlier in the race for a boneheaded move. Why can't he simply learn to attack when it matters. He got the best car in those conditions. Clearly Kimi was struggling and Lewis was much Better than him. So why can't he tuck behind Kimi and attack him at the La Source. Surely he'd overtook Kimi atleast by The Kemmel straight due to the Mclarens good top speed? Why can't he play it safe for once? If he loses the WDC this year, its not because of luck or anything. Its because he failed to learn from his own previous mistakes.

Common practice has become that if you go off track and gain a position by doing so, you must relinquish that position to avoid getting penalized. The rationale is that you obtained an unfair advantage by going off track (which is prohibited) thus you must somehow nullify that advantage, and in 99.9% of the time giving back the position does indeed erase whatever advantage you may have got.

What happened yesterday is that Hamilton cut the chicane, gained an advantage (he would have obviously been further behind had he braked after his failed overtaking attempt and followed the track), then he and McLaren somehow attempted to "morph" what is common practice into an actual, official rule which could then be interpreted literally to hold onto the biggest possible advantage under the circumstances i.e. let him pass, so you uphold the "letter of the rule", but by the slightest possible margin and while also setting up an overtaking maneuver.

The stewards realized this and nailed them.

What he could do? Pretty easy: as soon as he rejoined the track he should have backed off and let Raikkonen gain a modest advantage (2-3 cars length) instead of racing alongside him for most of the straight, trying to slow down ever-so-slightly to be right on his ass immediately before the braking zone. That was simply too blatant, like he was declaring in a press statement "yeah, I'm trying to pull off a dodgy move by applying the most literal possible reading to a rule which actually doesn't even exists". The stewards saw this for what it was, and applied the actual rule: nice try Lewis, but you go off track --> we nail you.

Moreover many Mclaren fans were arguing in the F1 forums I visit that Lewis shouldn't be stripped his win but instead should've given a 10-spot grid penalty for Monza. I think this'll be much more worse. He only lost 4 points this race. Imagine him starting from the midfield(min. starting place will be 11th after the application of the 10-spot grid penalty). There will be midfield cars ahead and who knows what will happen? If someone made a bone-headed attempt or do something stupid, he'll have a DNF when he actually has a good chance to win at Monza as its a Mclaren track(Due to their domination last year and also the fact that Bridgestone are going to bring the hard and Medium tyres which is not good for Ferrari for whom the soft and super-soft tyres are to their advantage). So I think Lewis getting a penalty this race itself is the best instead of the 10-spot grid penalty.

Also The reason the Stewards gave the penalty after the race is this: For a drive-through penalty to be issued, they have to give the driver atleast 3 laps to do the penalty. But since it was already the last lap, he can't do the drive through penalty. So only it was given after the race(converted to a 25s penalty as that is what a normal drive through will cost in terms of time).

Now coming to the drivers you mentioned. There is one big factor in this argument. Point System. During those days only the best 6 race results were taken into account. After that the point system was 10-6-4 for the Podium finishers thus rewarding a race win to a large extent. So they wouldn't care if they crashed as they can exclude those results and take their best 6 results or in the latter case gave more incentive for a win, thus they raced to win and not for points. You forgot to mention Prost who is totally different from Senna and he's calculating and he almost always plays it safe to an extent instead of trying boneheaded moves at that time itself.

But the point system nowadays(created in order to stop Schumi's domination and also to prevent him from winning the title halfway through the season) only rewards consistency and doesn't rewards a race win like it was previously. So only you see drivers settle down after the last pit stop and mostly they don't try any stupid moves unless they want a DNF. Also you can never see team-mates in the top teams fighting each other after the last round of pit stops to prevent any mistakes ruining their point scoring positions. They also tune down their engine revs in order to prevent their engines due to the stupid 2-race engine rule. So point system only rewards consistency. Why do you think Lewis was so good last year and fought for the WDC straightaway? He had 9 consecutive podiums. Only that made him be in the WDC lead for so long last year. Gone are the days of ruthless drivers. Its cruise and collect mode or else you'll end up with nothing. All Lewis had to do at Interlagos last year was stick to Alonso's back and he'd be WDC. But since he lost his head and in his anger that Alonso had passed him, he tried that boneheaded maneuver and let me tell you, Alonso can be a stupid and a moaner off-track, but on-track he's the best and he simply closed the doors on Lewis. What happened afterwards is history. So if Lewis learned something from last year is that he can't try moves like that all the time with all the drivers. If somehow he had to pass DC, then it'll end in tears for sure as DC is renowned for closing the door whether its right or wrong. Same with Webber and Alonso.

I hope you understand what I'm saying. I'm criticizing Lewis not for his racecraft, but his application of it in tough times inorder to get the max out of the situation. Tell me who gained the most from the race and Lewis cheeky moves??? Lewis or Kimi or Massa??? He's a WDC Contender. he has to look at the bigger picture. History only remembers the winner and its always partial. If Mclaren fail to produce a good car from next year on, then he might end-up like Jacques Villeneuve and tell me how many will remember Lewis after 50 years? All that'll matters is WDC. History only glorifies them and not the losers.

I'll only tell you this. It could've been worse if there was a grid penalty. So be happy that Lewis only lost 4 points(6 points to Massa actually as he would've been 8 points clear of Massa had the original result stayed) instead of a possible DNF at Monza thus losing more than 10 points(as Massa is more likely to finish in the points at Monza). Yes its hard, but its fair.

EDIT: Oh BTW that precedent I was talking about Alonso's identical move on Klien was at Suzuka(Japan) 2005. That is a clear precedent set in tha seam way. The difference being it was in the middle of the race thus there was time available. The Stewards said to the Renault team after 3 laps of the incident that Alonso has to give the position away to Klien again immediately for the second time as what he did was unfair(exactly what Lewis did) or else a drive-through will be issued. So Alonso who was way ahead by that time had to slow down to let Klien pass him again and then did a fair pass on Klien. Since this happened on the las tlap, ther was no time for the Stewards to make a decision and there were incidents happening left and right so it was coompletely impossible for the stewards to issue a warning. So what happened was according to the rules and it was completely fair. Maybe the fans think they are hard done by, but this is only fair.

ok ..so the rules are clear that he was liable to a penalty .... It is strange though that Hamilton and his team are adamant that they did nothing wrong ...even Formula 1 legend and triple world champion Niki Lauda has described the stewards' decision as "the worst judgement in F1 history". "It is the most perverted judgment I have ever seen," said the Austrian, who won the title for both Ferrari and McLaren. "It's absolutely unacceptable when three functionaries (the stewards) influence the championship like this."

What do you make of that ...?