No, Man United were favored to repeat as champions before the start of the campaign, and even after their slow start. And I believe they are still favored to win among the bookies and critics.

Even with Arsenal's brilliant start, all the critics still were against them and stated they'd falter. Every game for awhile there seemed to be another test, just so one of them could finally say Arsenal lost a game and are now on the downward spiral. Only recently have they realized their views before the campaign started were wrong regardless if Arsenal win's or doesn't win a trophy. They've far exceeded the expectations of every critic out there.

the difference was Flipper ...that Man Utd , Chelsea and Liverpool were the teams everyone was saying would challenge for the title from the start of the season ...they said Arsenal would struggle to make the top four without Henry . ...Arsenal have proved them wrong from the start and been top or near top ever since ..

Man Utd did struggle badly early on ....its funny how the media were calling it a crisis after only 5 games ..but they bounced back and look ok now ..

Arsenal have always loved the FA Cup ....us and Man Utd are the two most successful teams in its history ...so we most certainly did want to win and i have no doubt Arsene Wenger and Co just did not expect such a thumping from Man Utd ....much like The Carling Cup defeat by Spurs ...never saw it coming ..

@papa5murf
erm.. it sounds so hard to be a gooner.. sorry.. T.T

@conn99
well.. everyone could just be wrong.. it's basically Liverpool that's struggling for position now..
the media always make fun of us if we lose.. nothing's very new about it.. lol..
and it's good to hear the points from a fair gooner.. i could've liked Gunners better this way..

@emre
it's painful indeed.. but they're actually still ahead of us in the league.. phew..

Yes so hard to be a gunner after 4-0 defeat
It must have been a very painful emotion.

Conner99 I salute you!
So refreshing to read such a common sense approach to this and a non bias opinion.

When will you learn to read clearly? I have not been saying that Arsenal did not want to win the game. I'm saying that they went out with lessened ambition, tactical and physical limitations, with great caution! I'm saying that they performed like they didn't want to win and based on that and the logic that comes with it, they simply did not go out and get stuck in.

They didn't want to lose - nobody wants to "not win" or lose a game to big rivals. But the mentality of the players was not the usual Arsenal. They were clearly backing out of most tackles and refraining from straining themselves.

You compare the simplest of things like turning, jogging, tackling, physical battling, passing, creating and so on of that Man Utd game to the higher class AC Milan European game tonight and you'll see how logic and how evident what I'm claiming is!

I do not need to give excuses - I have rightly admitted that we were beaten. I am not trying to take glory away from Man Utd - but I am being brutally honest with what I saw. And if you look at what I've seen and see what happened in the aftermath, the Arsenal team made a huge advantage of that lessened ambition at the weekend, and that refrained strain and they have just absolutely pummelled the European Champions and the team who comfortably knocked out Man Utd of last year's tournament.

The Champions League KO stage is more important to us. It's a much higher level than the FA Cup 5th round with weakened teams & rested players.

I am 100% confident with what I believe here, and I'm confident that it will pay off in the long run and that has already started to take effect.

I appreciate that you want to glorify the Man Utd win and truly believe that you are that much better, but it's simply not true and I eagerly anticipate the Old Trafford Premiership tie and I look forward to returning to this thread when the season is finished, and see if this 'logic' has paid off in helping our current 5-point lead at the top of the League continue until the finish line - as well as the progress in the Champions League.

I'm surprised myself at how good Arsenal were tonight. I thought Milan would have troubled us dearly and kept us at bay, but we truly outclassed the Champions and if we hadn't of rested and limited our key players at the weekend, the injuries and fatigue might have drained us for tonight and really could have killed our chances.

I don't need Ben91 to back me up. I was simply asking you why didn't you challenge his views which openly agreed with mine. You don't like my opinions and want to do your best to glorify the massive win for Man Utd - I totally understand that, but when you start mocking me by calling me son and calling me biased, then I simply can't sit and read. No harm done - I think I stood by my beliefs and made the points clearly and quite logically - I think it takes a little more of an open mind and reasonable logic to understand.



Also - I think what Wenger said about being a "one off" was a new comment, and plainly it contradicts what happened in the Carling Cup - but if you look at it in terms of how we had approached the game with limitied ambition and rested First XI players - you can see what he really means by "one off". That's just my impression from what he said - he's always clever with his words.

I understand that you then read what he says to the media and completely uses the entire commentary to try and backup your own ideas - but Wenger will not admit that he has lessened the ambition of the team. He will not admit that Clichy, Flamini and Adebayor weren't actually injured (see tonight's game against Milan for proof, three of our finest performers) and that they were actually rested for the higher priority Milan game! He will not admit to the fans as well that he has lost the game to help benefit the squad condition, our greater chances in the important competitions, to prevent injury and help our fixture congestion.

He will not admit this sacrifice to the media as he will be ripped apart by opposing fans for lessened ambition and even a lot of Arsenal fans. Not wanting to win 100% against the fierce rivals in the big domestic Cup would be demeaning. But I personally think it's logical and I believe this sacrifice will measure up very smartly at the end. The benefits are already starting to show, despite the devastating draw.

Let’s be honest J. You’re having an Elm Street in this thread!!

Your understanding of Wenger’s comments have turned full circle from the previous page. First you said his “one off” comment was clear evidence of Arsenal’s lack of ambition, then after I pointed out that he was clearly referring to the result, you’ve switched your point to declare that he talks nonsense to the media. If you admit that he talks nonsense to the media, don’t quote him to back up your argument because you look foolish. Now you’re suggesting that he was implying what you’re saying – where’s the evidence of that? There isn’t any.

Cesc’s comments tell you all you need to know. Or was he just bluffing to disguise their lack of ambition??? He was being totally honest – and you like honesty from Cesc don’t you? Because I remember you saying that when he gave those disrespectful comments about Blackburn’s football. The bottom line is that he got humiliated on Saturday and the hurt was clear to see by what he said. He’s got pride, J-Axe. So has Wenger. They may have pulled some players out for yesterday’s game with AC Milan but I’m saying that the players who played against Man Utd did their best to win.

I’m done with this now anyway. Your continuous blind faith of Arsenal is clear for everyone to see - even to the more fairer minded Gooner fans like Conner.

My impression of Wenger's "one off" comment still stands, and I reiterated that in the last post.

Wenger generally bluffs his way through the media interviews to keep things as smooth as possible for his team - but when making important comments about important games, he always throws in a particular comment that can be interpreted in many ways, but he knows what he's getting at and he knows some fans know what he's getting at without having to spell it out too much - in a way, expressing his true feelings yet not making it crystal clear or too much detail for the media to rape.

I'm not saying that my opinion is based on evidence. I'm giving an opinion. He claimed it was a "one off" because it was. However, like I stressed up-thread, he discounted the Spurs game from this comment for what reason? Because it was approached completely differently to the Man Utd game - hence being a one off and not a "two off".



But you claim Cesc is a cheating, disrespectful, coward, mouthy, bullsh*tting, scummer etc. etc.

But you believe his comments through & through here?

Do you believe that Cesc can come out and admit a lack of ambition against a rival team? Do you believe Cesc would ever admit to backing out of challenges and prioritising other games within a rival match-up in the "romantic" FA Cup? There'd be uproar and you know it. And you know fine rightly that 95% of football-related men keep 95% of their true feelings from the media.



Awww, ok.



You debate with conner99 in the future and ignore the evil blind bias of myself.

lol.. understood..

every single piece of good and bad things said about Gunners is completely untrue from now on.. XD