I have never rated Downing. At times he looks good at Boro but i think this is more down to the low quality around him. He stands out because he is their best player. Everything tends to go through him. Put him in Liverpools team and he will be below their standard. Liverpool should be after worldclass wingers, not people like Downing. He shouldn't even be in the England squad. J.Cole and Young are twice the player he is. He somehow gets the odd chance with england but he never delivers.

He would be like Pennant for us. A half decent player, but not someone to significantly improve us.

Reira I think would be a loan move, even so, hardly a signing to write home about. Same as Downing. But Downing would probably be usueful for us. Now dont get me wrong, I in no way think he is good enough for us, but at the moment I think a player who specialises as a winger would do a far better job for us than a player who is clueless in a position un-natural to him, i.e Kuyt.

Downing can run with the ball, stays wide, puts in a descent cross and can score a good number of goals. Put him in a better team with better players around him I think he could do pretty well. We could do a lot worse, but then again, we could and SHOULD do a lot better.

We should have bought Young two years ago when we had the chance. story of Liverpool

He has been put in a better team with better players a number of times - with England. Any almost every time he performs to a substandard level.

He'll just be like Pennant - out of his depth.

If he wasn't good enough for Tottenham - then he isn't good enuogh for us.

come off it sticky, how can you use that as a basis for playing in a better team. England are clearly a poor example of this! Name 5 England players that consistantly play well for England, even half well.

Now I am not saying he is good enough for us. I said that. But he would do a much better job for us than Kuyt or Yossi out on the wings. We crave width. He supplies that. I rate Yossi but he is not a wide player. Downing would do what we need. Advance forward, try and take players on and put in a descent ball.

However, this problem in the wide areas is only more apparent in a disasterous 4-4-2 formation. If we go back to the 4-2-3-1 formation I dont think we will be as vunerable as we are in a 4-4-2.

I dont want my defending of Downing to be mistaken for me wanting him. We HAVE to be buying better players than that, but if that is all we can expect, he is better than what we have out there.

Hargreaves, Barry (although they don't get to play that much), Crouch, Gerrard, J. Cole, Ferdinand, Terry and Neville.

They all play well/half well.

I'd rather sign someone like Vicente, Joaquin, Petrov, or someone everyone seems to have forgotten about - Zhirkov!

I'd love to sign him. He played at left-back for Russia in the euros, but spent most of his time up field, as he's clearly more of a midfielder. I think he could do a very good job in a 4-4-2 formation. I even think he could do quite a good job in the 4-2-3-1 formation we use.

C'mon, get Zhirkov!!!

How is he in club play though? I really don't want our front office to base buying a player on a Euro performance. It's so different to gutting it out throughout an extended period of time as the League play give than a couple-of-month tournament. You have a guy like Schweinsteiger who had a bad year at Bayern and then he tears it up in the Euros. The Turks and the Russians performed extremely well there yet you don't see an influx of Turks and Russians being bought in England, Spain, and Italy.

Like I've been saying before, Rafa is not in a position to make another big risk foreign signing who seems good, but has a risk of flopping and wasting our money once he gets to England. This could very well be his last year and he knows it so he's going for the best players he can get in the Premier League, picking from the mid-table teams as the big signings as we've seen in Keane and him targeting Barry. He's on a short leash and we might as well get quality for our money even if it means shelling out a few more million rather than end up with another Morientes or Cisse who would be pretty big money signings only for us to be forced to sell them after a year.

We have to make the odd gamble. You don't bridge the gap on teams like Man U and Chelsea by playing it safe all the time.

If no one ever gambled, this league would be pathetic, like in the old days, before the influx of foreigners.

Anyway, i think he has the assets to succeed in the premier league, and i'd MUCH rather take a chance on him, than on someone like Downing, who has shown he is nowhere near Zhirkov's level on the international stage.

I don't know how good he is at club level, all i've seen of him is his goal against Hamburg in the UEFA cup and the final he was in against Sporting Lisbon - but i didn't pay a great deal of attention to him.

It was undeniably a truly magical goal. Something you'll never see from Downing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhjJuc2Qxek

Sticky I think this statement speaks volumes!

"I don't know how good he is at club level, all i've seen of him is his goal against Hamburg"

How do you justify going for a player with "In depth knowledge" like this?!?!?!

Its one thing to take chance as you say but even when a top manager "takes a chance" at least they usually intensively research and scout a player before hand.

How can you advocate signing a player who really you know bugger all about?

Do you see the sense in what Im saying? its the Arshavin point all over agian.

Xabi, you make an excellent point.



If you only take into account one superb goal, and it is a superb goal, or one superb performance then you are in trouble! El Hadge Diouf anyone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZmmTmFOQXA - Poulo Wanchope goal v United.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S29D_Jw7Si4&feature=related - Tony Yaboah goal V Wimbledon.

These are just two examples of goals from players that if you just saw the goals, and the goals alone you would think, wow, what a player. Delve a little deeper and you know that they would not be right for Liverpool. i am not saying the player you mention would not be a good signing, but I know little about him and so do you by the sounds of it. You have seen one goal.

And why do you think you bridge the gaps on Chelsea and United by taking a gamble? Surely it is the opposite. Now is the time we do not want to gamble and buy established players. For years now we have been taking a gamble on players and look where it has got us. I certainly do not want Rafa to be taking a gamble with a player over our challenge and his job.Established stars now please, it has to be the way.

I think Downing would be very good for us. Honestly. And i know plenty of other Liverpool fans who think the same.

To write him off because of England is ridiculous - to judge a player on international matches is just that as well. Lampard is non-existent for England, Gerrard is often a shadow of his Liverpool self, Ferdinand and Terry are nowhere near as solid in an England shirt, James goes crazy and starts running out to meet the ball a mile out when one of the opposition players is about 5 yards out. No English players play as well for England as they do for their club, maybe with the exception being Owen.

And what's more, when has Downing really had much of an opportunity? And didn't Capello say he was the player that had "surprised him most"? Meant in a good way of course.

I don't know how you can compare him to Pennant either. A player as inconsistent as hell and with a pretty weak end product. Downing has a superb cross, good strike on him, can beat a man comfortably (and if he doesn't, can bend his cross around the man), his young, quick, and as well of which would solve our atrocious set-pieces. He would walk into our side.

Maybe if he were called Downinho, hailing from the inner reaches of Brazil?...

Absolutely Ben, that is what i have been saying. A club of Liverpool's stature should be attracting the biggest names, but we all know we can not. Downing would certianly be able to do a job for us. As I said earlier Downing is


Sticky, you mention he plays badly when he plays for England but he only seems to make small camio appearances at the end of a match.
You also seem to be blinded by skill on face value. You dont seem to take into account other factors that come into looking for suitable players.

I'm not blinded by skill on face value.

I know Downing is a decent/solid player, but not the standard required for us in my opinion. Tottenham were interested, but at the last minute Ramos pulled out, clearly realising he could do much better. We should be doing better also.

Why is it Tottenham target players such as Capel, when they are in a lower position than we are, but we go for players like Downing. Capel has the potential to be twice the player Downing is.

Also, i do not like Downing, which may cloud my view a bit, but i still think it's safe to say he's a LONG way from being a top class player.

As for Zhirkov, i'm not judging him solely on a single goal. I just wanted an excuse to show it, because, it really is a fantastic goal.

I think what i saw in the euros was enough to make me want him more than Downing though. I think he showed he has more ability than Downing in just a short spell. I don't think you'd ever see Downing have as big an impact on a major tournament at international level as Zhirkov did in the euros. Obviously if i were to sign him, i'd want to see more of what he can do - but i'm not, so i can throw names around as much as i like.

I don't think he would even cost that much, so i'd happily gamble on him.

oh Stciky, you amuse me hugely with your annual wild goose chase in the transfer market.

urging your manager to buy a player you can only have seen like 5 times maximum and even then i highly doubt you paid much interest in each of those games.

you truly are the leader of the Youtube generation.

Sticky, we're two pages on now with basically the same conversation. I dont for a minute deny you your opinion, if you like a player fine, I might not rate him, you do thats football! (aside form the fact I do rate Arshavin but think he's unproven Zirkov also looks good but same as)

The crux of the matter is that Rafa as Liverpool FOOTBALL CLUB MANAGER lives or dies by his decisions and so to sign a player he needs to have a good idea that he's going to succeed. There is an element of chance with every signing but the way rafa works he ensures he knows as much about a player as possible before he even goes for them.

Obviously as footy fans we've all got our own opinion but I like to think (Particulary on this site) we can back up our thoughts with sound logic giving the reasons behind why we should be looking to sign any certain player.

Im sorry mate but one international competition has been proved time and time again to be a terrible place to judge any player. (reasons have already been stated above by others) see Diouf, Proborski, Berger & Baros.

Incidently having watched that goal you posted above, you said that is something you wouldnt see Downing do, You probably wouldnt see a goal like that int he premiership mate! not with defending that bad anyway.

I'm not judging anyone on a youtube video. I never do. I'm judging him on the euros.

Regardless, i'm allowed to go on a wild goose chase, throwing around names without seeing them a great deal. That's half the fun of the transfer window. Anyone that's ever been in the Tottenham transfer thread knows that! Messi, Kaka, Villa, Silva etc. have all been mentioned there.

Oh and everyone goes on about how judging players on a major tournament is bad, and yeah, players such as Djouf and Rebrov are good examples of players that were good in major tournaments, but flopped when signed after. But there's no denying those two players have/had ability. They just flopped at a particular team. Doesn't mean if they were signed by another team after a major tournament, they wouldn't have excelled.

It's just like us signing Bellamy after an impressive campaign with Blackburn. He flopped with us. Can we say that premier league with Blackburn wasn't indicative of his ability?

The fact is, plenty of players flop after being signed directly from impressive league and international tournament campaigns. But also, the opposite is often true.

erm no, Rebrov is sh*t. he flopped even in the championship.

do you really think Bellamy flopped for Liverpool? i think thats incredibly harsh. i dont think many would really agree with that personally.

the youtube comment was just a phrase. what is meant by that is becoming an overnight expert on obscure players on the back of very limited watching time on a player.

ok fair enough, if you think wild fantasy amd name dropping is fun i will stand back and let you carry on. i will just pop back into the West Ham thread and suggest we buy some obscure brazillian player from Santos because he is good at keepy uppies.

the Spurs thread is anything but a benchmark on the standard of transfer rumours you should aspire to.

ok, here are some rumours from the tabloids. Might as well discuss these as these are the players we are linked with. No point discussing the players we want Rafa to get that will never materialise.

Sticky you seem to have some sort of bug up your arse about Spurs for some reason.

Just remind me how many league titles have Spurs won? how many League Cups? how many FA Cups? How many Champs Leagues?

When was the last time Spurs finished anywhere near Liverpool in the league never mind above them?

Why on earth should WE (Liverpool) be in any way jealous of Spurs transfer policy?