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Postby Zinc » Mon May 07, 2012 10:54 am

Johaldo8 wrote:
J-Axe wrote:I always laugh watching Theo Walcott. The way he moves his short legs, like Scrappy-doo. He zooms up and down the wing, back and forth at lightspeed but rarely picks a decent pass or cross. No end product.


Well said Axeman. Wrong thread but accurate all the same :)


Haha, exactly what I was thinking.
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Postby J-Axe » Mon May 07, 2012 1:27 pm

Theo Walcott?

11 goals, 11 assists? That's most definitely evidence of end product.

Far better than Lennon, better statistically and much better end product. He'll be starting ahead of him for England anyway.
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Postby Zinc » Mon May 07, 2012 1:47 pm

J-Axe wrote:Theo Walcott?

11 goals, 11 assists? That's most definitely evidence of end product.

Far better than Lennon, better statistically and much better end product. He'll be starting ahead of him for England anyway.


I reckon I've watched all but about 5 Arsenal games this year - I've seen them in full, including our games in the Carling Cup, FA, CL and PL - Walcott has had about 5 or 6 good games this season, the rest of the time he simply hasn't been good enough. He looks great on MOTD when you only get to see the first time he manages to get one of his crosses to a team mate, in the 80th minute, but it's the 16 times he lost possession before that, running into someones shins that is missed. So much of our play goes through him on the right flank and the majority of the time it comes to nothing.

On his day he's unplayable, so fast and direct that it guarantees goals and goal scoring opportunities but frankly he doesn't have enough of them for me, we're desperate for someone to create chances in the final third, that's his job - he doesn't do it enough. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have twelve million pounds Theo Walcott with a haul of goals and assists than say twenty million pounds downing with no goals and no assists, but average players like Theo who have failed to develop and can't sustain their form are the reason why we've fallen behind.

Theo's a lovely chap but I think he's not suited to wing play, his crossing isn't very good and his passing is rarely up to standard - I'd love to see him work centrally though, he looks like a striker to me.
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Postby J-Axe » Mon May 07, 2012 2:09 pm

11 goals, 11 assists. You can't really argue it. He's far better than Downing and much more productive than Lennon, seeing as those comparisons have been made.

Theo's problem is confidence. When he's on it, he's electric and he's unstoppable. When he's not, he's absolutely woeful. He had a spell before Christmas where he was outstanding and even in our darkest days earlier in the season he was absolutely instrumental to anything positive we did and stood up when a lot of our players hung their heads - if you remember he was key in us getting into the CL after two hard-fought games against Udinese, with Theo providing the goods.

After the Everton game after Christmas (when van Persie scored that volleyed winner) he went to the dogs again and had about 6-8 woeful games, absolutely dreadful. But then he picked it up again and has done well. Even then, in some of those dire performances he was still assisting RVP and his crossing, wingplay and goal-scoring has improved this season.

Walcott isn't a traditional winger. He plays there because he's not built to play centrally in our system and his pace makes him a threat out wide - however he is a lot more direct, a lot more learned and his end product has really improved. And RVP doesn't rely on crosses or aerial balls into the box, yet Theo regularly provides a lot of his goals. I think at the tail end of last season he provided something like 8 of RVP's goals in a row. He continued that form into this season, dipped terribly after Christmas (and I was slating him as the worst player ever, elsewhere) then he picked up form again - and you'll remember his brace against Spurs in the 5-2. He's been better than everyone of our players who have played in the wide roles this season, so it's very harsh to pick on his ability when he produces the goods. Gervinho, Benayoun, Arshavin, Oxo are some of those who've played in the wider roles, not one of them established a permanent starting role and not one of them really proved any level of consistency.

Either way, I was talking about Lennon in the first place. I think he desperately lacks end product, much more so than Theo who has proven he's improved in that part of his game. The stats don't lie. He will be picked ahead of Lennon for England most definitely.
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Postby Zinc » Mon May 07, 2012 2:15 pm

Establishing a starting role in our current team isn't necessarily a huge thing, Ramsey has hardly had a good game in 2012 and his place hasn't been threatened too much, injuries have had a hand in that but we've got plenty of players to keep him out of the team in my opinion. As I said, I do like Walcott and believe he can be brilliant on his day, but for me he's too inconsistent and has had large periods again this year where he's been of no use to us - I've been waiting for him to develop for so long, but year after year it's the same thing.

I agree that Theo is better than Lennon but that doesn't hold much currency for me.
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Postby J-Axe » Mon May 07, 2012 2:25 pm

Zinc wrote:Establishing a starting role in our current team isn't necessarily a huge thing, Ramsey has hardly had a good game in 2012 and his place hasn't been threatened too much,


Ramsey did well when he came back from his leg break last season. In fact it was during this week last season that Ramsey scored the winner against United in the 1-0 win. He had every right to be given a chance. Cesc was going, Nasri was meant to slip into the central role but then he went. Ramsey was next in line after his good comeback. He did well at first then struggled desperately and his season turned upside-down, luckily Rosicky got fit and slotted into that role. And Ramsey has only played recently because Arteta is injured.

As I said, I do like Walcott and believe he can be brilliant on his day, but for me he's too inconsistent and has had large periods again this year where he's been of no use to us - I've been waiting for him to develop for so long, but year after year it's the same thing.


I agree that he's inconsistent. I never said anything against that. I talked of his inconsistency and actually pointed out his good and bad periods of this season above. He needs to improve his consistency but he still produces. His stats show that. He regularly comes up trumps for us, scores some important goals and has been the main supplier to RVP.

I agree that Theo is better than Lennon but that doesn't hold much currency for me.


Well I wasn't saying anything other than that.. was I? :lol:

I criticised Lennon for his lack of end product and Johaldo sarcastically made it about Theo when in fact Walcott has been much more productive than him. Walcott doesn't compare to the really top, top players but he's been our best option out wide and he's been our second highest goal-scorer, our biggest assist-maker. He is better than Lennon. I've not said anything more than that. I know full well of his inconsistency, confidence-issues and inability to adapt his game when we're not dominating possession.
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Postby Zinc » Mon May 07, 2012 4:14 pm

I totally agree about Ramsey being given the chance and the first half of this season he showed signs of promise - he was our best player in a few games, but that development has not only failed to elevate his game over the second half of the season but has completely deserted him and he's been poor for months. He's only 21 and lost basically a year to his leg break and I think in the past has shown enough to afford him patience but at the moment it's not working and we desperately need our players to be at their best just to secure Champions League football next year. As I've said before, it might be an idea to send him out on loan next year, get him to train under someone else and hopefully something will start clicking again, he certainly needs a bit of a break.

Against West Brom we can play any of Chamberlin, Rosicky, Benayoun, Santos, Coquelin, Song, Gervinho and even Walcott in midfield so we do have options and shouldn't be forced into playing someone completely out of form who's showing no signs of shaking his dip.

Your final paragraph hits my point well enough - he's not a top player and shows no signs of becoming one. Anyway, we're pretty much in agreement on this one.
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Postby J-Axe » Mon May 07, 2012 4:22 pm

Agree on Ramsey having another loan spell. Needs regular games at a lower level to find his feet again. Rosicky's brilliance has knocked him off the small perch he built from his recovery last season.

Anyway..

Back to Spurs and how they fkd it up after we fkd it up. :lol:

For the good of the competition I do hope Spurs can keep their best players and if possible improve throughout the Summer, just as I hope we will because if it doesn't happen then the top two will get further away. Chelsea have a bit of work to do but they have the material to build over the summer. I don't think Newcastle will be as progressive next season despite how well they've done.
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Postby Pokerkings » Mon May 07, 2012 5:15 pm

1-1

:lol:

I have a confession to make........












I love Tottenham Hotspur Football Club.
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Postby specnur » Mon May 07, 2012 8:15 pm

Flipping hell! I thought Spurs won this game ffs! Unbelievable ,they had the chance to take 3rd spot and they failed againsta team that has plummeted faster than Villa under O'neil or MCKliesh's last club after winning the league cup. :D
My gosh i can only think of all the names that would have been aimed at Arsenal if they had done the same as this lot with that much talent on their team.

I will not lower myself to such immature needling and proceed to tell you what i have said for years .This league is the best league in the world bar none as far as competitiveness is concerned other league just have to bow down to what has been one of the most exciting season's on record. For football fans all over the world that follow the premiership ,this must have been incredible ,but for me as an Englishman i feel proud tis is a product of that land warts and all!

Last game of the season and we are still not knowing who's getting what ,crazy!
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Postby J-Axe » Mon May 07, 2012 9:56 pm

I didn't know you were English specnur. I know you lived there when young though..
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Postby specnur » Mon May 07, 2012 10:38 pm

J-Axe wrote:I didn't know you were English specnur. I know you lived there when young though..


Bristol born and bred mate. More than the first half my life in the England.
:D
Not to worry ,i'll be back there in four years after i put my last son through college over here!
:wink:
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Postby Sparkyjinx » Wed May 09, 2012 8:08 pm

Pokerkings wrote:1-1

:lol:

I have a confession to make........












I love Tottenham Hotspur Football Club.


Alas, you can always count on Spurs to shoot themselves in the foot just when it matters

But what an exciting final day of the season this Sunday could potentially be.
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Postby Pokerkings » Thu May 10, 2012 7:07 pm

You're right mate, it's bollox holding time!!
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Postby specnur » Thu May 10, 2012 9:11 pm

Zinc wrote:I totally agree about Ramsey being given the chance and the first half of this season he showed signs of promise - he was our best player in a few games,


Which games were those?

I have watched every Arsenal game this season and i can't remember 1 where he's been the best player. They should definitely be easy to remember after the season he's had ,because they should stick out like a sore thumb.
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Postby J-Axe » Thu May 10, 2012 9:33 pm

In the earlier part of the season he had some good games. Some awful ones, but he picked up form a bit. I thought he played well in the loss to Liverpool, despite scoring an OG nonetheless. :lol:

Scored against Spurs. Scored a crucial winner away at Marseille as well. Good game against Stoke following that and played well in the win at Stamford Bridge which kick-started our season. He also played quite well in the win over Dortmund.

Then he just faded. I know he had a couple of niggly injuries but once he regained match fitness and had that absolutely horrible game against Swansea (he tried too hard against his ex-Club's enemy). Since then he's been woeful. Shot of confidence.

He is a talented player. And he showed that before and after his leg-break. He was class at times at the end of last season I thought, especially in the win over United when he scored the only goal.

But Rosicky came in and did everything Ramsey couldn't. He doesn't fit that attacking midfield role. I think he'll be loaned out next season and will struggle to return.
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Postby Zinc » Thu May 10, 2012 10:09 pm

specnur wrote:
Zinc wrote:I totally agree about Ramsey being given the chance and the first half of this season he showed signs of promise - he was our best player in a few games,


Which games were those?

I have watched every Arsenal game this season and i can't remember 1 where he's been the best player. They should definitely be easy to remember after the season he's had ,because they should stick out like a sore thumb.


You've repeatedly proven you're incapable of being objective and have fanciful views, I'm not going to start a discussion with you about Ramsey.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRTeqDGeQEY[/video]
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Postby Big Jono » Thu May 10, 2012 11:40 pm

This thread is not about Arsenal.

Back on topic please.
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Postby J-Axe » Fri May 11, 2012 12:29 am

It's not about Ramsey but it's actually very much about Arsenal.

The result of this game could greatly affect our immediate future. ;)
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Postby Big Jono » Fri May 11, 2012 1:21 am

Fair point! And I think it was Johaldo that first mentioned an Arsenal player anyway, the nugget.
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