The Arsene Wenger Thread

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The Arsene Wenger Thread

Postby J-Axe » Mon May 07, 2012 4:58 pm

Due to popular demand. Here you go Pokers and co.

Best to keep it all in here rather than derail every other thread.

So all things to do with Arsène Wenger: His role at Arsenal; his past, present and future at the Club.
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Postby J-Axe » Mon May 07, 2012 4:59 pm

I'll kick it off with this, which should mightily please Pokers:

:lol:

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-WrgVpu_0k[/video]
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Postby Pokerkings » Mon May 07, 2012 5:11 pm

:lol:

The very fact that someone has taking the time to put that together should at the very least ring alarm bells in that so called Arsenal Football Club supporting head of yours.
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Postby J-Axe » Mon May 07, 2012 5:17 pm

You should move your last big post in the Norwich thread to here..

#justsayin'

And are you saying I'm a "supposed" Arsenal fan now? :roll:
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Postby Pokerkings » Mon May 07, 2012 5:32 pm

J-Axe, my original post on page 1 was:

Pokerkings wrote:What a ridiculous position Wenger has put us in. We can now end up 5th if we don't win both our remaining games.

Thing is, I can see the Spuds winning both of their last two games, so unless we get 6 points we could be facing Europe League.

It shows you now just how important those games against Wigan and Q.P.R were. Wenger really has some motivational problems amongst all his other weak areas.

Tw@t.


This was before the game J-Axe and what happened?

Do Norwich have better players than us? nope.

Do they have anything to really fight for (Champions League football)? nope.

Were they at home? nope!

Yet I called that Wenger wouldn't have his players ready or motivated for this game and I was bang on the money highlighting issues under his poor management.

What was the difference between the two sides? Work rate and effort! that's what. Their players are not at the level of ours yet they put in a World class shift for that team.

What constructive posts have you offered? referring back to past success? How the hell is that constructive? the CHEEK!

Where's the pride? where's the passion?

Wenger lost it a long time ago because he's been more focused on corporate Arsenal PLC and his own beliefs than what's best for Arsenal Football Club. Whenever he's been questioned about his strange decisions we get:


"I have made over 50000 decisions in my career, I don't need to explain them to anybody"



Arsene, you're looking for a new number two, will that be Tony Adams?


"I've been a manager for 30 years so it's be difficult to bring in someone who can each me something about football"


The man is so up himself it's a joke. Even Sol Campbell said he hates to be challenged at the training ground and only does things his way. Ferguson keeps it fresh and has often changed his assistant because he knows he's not always right.

It's all this which has held us back from being better than what we are yet you will happily continue this way. It's not a choice or to be balanced. Wenger wont change, he's to into himself and is on a personal quest to prove himself right! I can't believe after 7 years you fail to see it. Shocking.

There's nothing fickle about it either. Once Dein left Arsenal Wenger was given a lot of freedom and power he didn't have when we were successful. Now the club will and the board will always have to wrestle that power back from him and it's not healthy. He needs to be put in line. He needs someone to stand up to him and point out all his mistakes he's making because he's so f**king stubborn he refuses to change his policy and no one, NO ONE challenges him. He even helped choose his own boss FFS!!

Rumour has it Bould has been given the number 2, love the guy but he wont be given any freedom to express his own suggestions, he'll just be collecting cones and handing out Lucozade.
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Postby Gazza-LFC » Mon May 07, 2012 5:34 pm

That video is brilliant lol
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Postby J-Axe » Mon May 07, 2012 5:51 pm

Pokerkings wrote:Do Norwich have better players than us? nope.


Do they have better players than Spurs, Newcastle or Liverpool? They hammered Newcastle. They won at WHL a few weeks ago. They got a point at Anfield.

What was the difference between the two sides? Work rate and effort! that's what. Their players are not at the level of ours yet they put in a World class shift for that team.


So it's solely Wenger's fault that Sagna, a World-class RB (that Wenger spotted and signed in a very, very good deal) failed to perform well? Koscielny and Vermaelen had bad games because Wenger couldn't motivate them enough? What happened to Spurs, Liverpool and Newcastle when they lost or dropped points at home to Norwich? Were Redknapp, Dalglish and Pardew 100% culpable for their slacking and their inability to beat an inferior team? Should they all be sacked as they're finishing below us in the league despite spending more. You bang on about Wenger having £50m to spend last summer.. Liverpool spent £105m and finished mid-table.

:lol:

What constructive posts have you offered?


19 different defensive combos has something to do with it. Sagna and Gibbs were carrying injuries, Sagna's broken leg re-broke as such.. Gibbs was all over the place.. he's never been 100% fit and usually goes between games harboring an injury. No excuse for Vermaelen or Szczesny who were particularly poor. Koscielny was on his own at times but wasn't great either.

The lack of protection in midfield is a problem as well because Song no longer sits and plays defensively. He roams and interchanges. Ramsey has had an awful season - he's slow, clumsy and lazy. Was a total waste of space yesterday. I would have played Coquelin ahead of him.

We definitely need to sort it out. But then Sagna is arguably the best RB in the game at his best and has been unlucky with TWO leg breaks; Koscielny has been immense for us and stands with Song, Arteta and RVP as our most key player; Vermaelen was immense until he had several long-term injuries and his performances are now patchy; Gibbs is the best LB we've had since Cashley but he's also injury-prone. Jenkinson, Mertesacker and Santos impressed in spells but all had long-term injuries as well. Arteta and Wilshere are kept out by injury as well and they're huge losses.

But that back five yesterday and not including Song ahead of them, is our strongest back five since the Invincibles. So the performance cannot be put on Wenger. The players badly underperformed. I don't want to make it about Wenger again, I'm done going around in circles over that. If he gets sacked, I'll discuss it again but that isn't going to happen despite all the whinging from emo-fans like Pokers. I think [fully fit] the squad is strong. I think the new signings have done well in general. I think our first XI is good enough to compete. I think we lack quality in depth a little, but without injury we're as good as everyone in the league bar Man City.

We should finish top four if not top three. That proves stability despite the rise of Spurs, Newcastle and of course City this season who have every right to be top four. Chelsea and Liverpool have spent a lot of money in recent windows and still lag behind us in the league. It's a very, very tough league. We have no divine right to finish top four. If we miss out on CL football because of what happens in Munching then that's disappointing but not the end of the World. Losing RVP would be a far bigger problem and we have to ensure that doesn't happen otherwise it'll be another difficult summer, as was last season having lost Cesc and Nasri.


The difficulty in keeping a wealth of talented strikers is that when you play the system we do it's impossible to keep them happy. RVP when fit starts every single game, there's nothing you can do about that. Vela, Bendtner, Chamakh and Park are central strikers and so there's only one spot up for grabs and RVP (thankfully) was fit enough to play regularly.

Vela and Bendtner were trialled in wider roles but didn't really suit it. They are both good players. Vela's excelling in La Liga again and he'll most likely go there permanently. Bendtner will do well at Sunderland or a Club at their level. Chamakh did really well when RVP was injured and got a goal every other game, showed great work-rate and power up front, acted as a really good targetman but once Robin got fit he basically faded into the shadows.

Podolski adds more quality and he'll most likely do well because he can fit into the wider roles if needs be. The aforementioned strikers currently on our books don't have that in their game. Podolski can play with RVP, out wide or in place of RVP. We'll keep Chamakh I think and he'll offer a plan B if needs be. He deserves more chances in all fairness. I thought he did well yesterday, his hold/link-up play was excellent when he came on, in fact he did everything RVP struggled to do up until then and all of a sudden RVP was getting chances as he pulled wide and dropped deep. Joel Campbell might fit into the first team next season as well. And don't forget that the Ox is yet to blossom, with his talent I'd expect him to push for a starting role next season and he'll add goals.

I think we'll be OK. The real worry will come if RVP leaves. Then we do have a serious problem.

Anyway, it looks like we'll get 3rd. It'll hopefully be enough to influence Robin to stay. That demonstrates just how important finishing top four is for us as a Club going forward. I know lots of Liverpool fans who've argued with me that finishing mid-table and winning the Carling Cup is a better achievement. It's not. If we finish mid-table we are never able to sign players like Podolski, M'Vila, Kagawa and we lose players like Vermaelen, Song, RVP etc. Not counting the profits as well.

We just need a bit of luck with injuries next season. If we can field that back five on a regular basis and keep Wilshere, Arteta and Rosicky fit then we'll be up there again next season. But there's no guarantees, not without money like City. Look how Liverpool and Chelsea have struggled in the league, they're nowhere near the top four and spent massively. Man Utd are in danger of slipping further, they have serious issues in midfield, they got dumped out of both European competitions early and look set to be trophyless - they don't have the spending power of City or Chelsea who will improve again in the summer.

We've remained stable. We remain top four. We should be in the CL next season. That should help retain RVP and hopefully lure in some big signings. Our finances are good. We can only go forwards. Wenger is the man to keep us stable. I don't see any other manager with £50m to spend coming in and making us title contenders or cup-winners as well as maintaining our regular CL appearance. It's a very, very difficult job. The league gets tougher and tougher. Transfer fees and wages get higher and higher.


That's the point I was making. We don't spend enough in comparison to the others to warrant such expectations. Liverpool have spent much, much more and have NEVER won the title and they have a greater pedigree than us and are supposed to be a bigger Club. We won two doubles under Wenger and won a title whilst unbeaten, reached the CL KO round about 10 seasons in a row (I've lost count) and have finished in the top four every single season - and included in all of that we made a big move to a spanking new stadium..

... all with a net spend of £1m a year on players.

We CAN spend more and that's the cry from the fans. I can understand that but Wenger has his targets and we bid for them at the right price, problem is that they are often lured to richer Clubs who can afford higher wage bills. Then when we do get top class players they still end up getting lured to a splash-the-cash soulless Club, like Man City.


You're repeating yourself. Fans want trophies? I am a fan. I want trophies. I have a full understanding of that and I've enjoyed seeing my Club win major honors.

The difference between wanting and expecting is the problem though. Certain fans expect silverware and slate everybody at the Club when you don't win it. That's the impatient, negative, fickle attitude that I get tired of. And the expenditure statistics show that our net spend doesn't really warrant such high expectations. I don't expect us to win titles. Not now. Not with the modern trends and the rise of Chelski and Etihad City.

We can however retain stability. Stay amongst the top four and the elite in Europe as well as balancing the books financially and allowing us to keep progressing slowly. If we spend, spend, spend, we'll go into debt and we'll struggle to progress and if we fall majorly behind (drop out of top four, lose out on CL football and lose all our top quality players who want CL football) then we'll just decline as a Club. Currently we're stable, still top four, still getting CL football, financially healthy, have a very decent squad with some World-class players, a proven World-class manager and we're able to attract pretty decent players from Clubs who perhaps don't have that stability or chance at CL football.

I can't stress how important that is. Winning the odd domestic cup doesn't really help that. it'd be lovely, it really would (and we've reached three finals in the seven season trophy drought) but it's not essential for our progress. I'm patient with our progress as much as I miss competing for the title, but I'm realistic and don't expect that. If we were spending £75m per season like Chelski then I'd expect to win the title, but we don't. Our net spend since 1992 has been around £1m.

But then even if you do expect silverware or believe that sacking Wenger and hiring somebody else would fix that problem then fair enough, but don't moan about it on a weekly basis and call Wenger a tw@t when you don't like what's going on.

You're repeating yourself. Fans want trophies? I am a fan. I want trophies. I have a full understanding of that and I've enjoyed seeing my Club win major honors.

The difference between wanting and expecting is the problem though. Certain fans expect silverware and slate everybody at the Club when you don't win it. That's the impatient, negative, fickle attitude that I get tired of. And the expenditure statistics show that our net spend doesn't really warrant such high expectations. I don't expect us to win titles. Not now. Not with the modern trends and the rise of Chelski and Etihad City.

We can however retain stability. Stay amongst the top four and the elite in Europe as well as balancing the books financially and allowing us to keep progressing slowly. If we spend, spend, spend, we'll go into debt and we'll struggle to progress and if we fall majorly behind (drop out of top four, lose out on CL football and lose all our top quality players who want CL football) then we'll just decline as a Club. Currently we're stable, still top four, still getting CL football, financially healthy, have a very decent squad with some World-class players, a proven World-class manager and we're able to attract pretty decent players from Clubs who perhaps don't have that stability or chance at CL football.

I can't stress how important that is. Winning the odd domestic cup doesn't really help that. it'd be lovely, it really would (and we've reached three finals in the seven season trophy drought) but it's not essential for our progress. I'm patient with our progress as much as I miss competing for the title, but I'm realistic and don't expect that. If we were spending £75m per season like Chelski then I'd expect to win the title, but we don't. Our net spend since 1992 has been around £1m.

But then even if you do expect silverware or believe that sacking Wenger and hiring somebody else would fix that problem then fair enough, but don't moan about it on a weekly basis and call Wenger a tw@t when you don't like what's going on.


Just a few of my post directed at you recently.

If you see none of those replies to your pedantic, negative whining as constructive then I'm absolutely 100% wasting my time in conversing with you. So, this is why I made this thread - for you to file your anti-Wenger views and moan all you like without polluting every other thread. So, have fun with it.

Zinc has been constructive. He can acknowledge the weaknesses and areas where Wenger must improve, but he can also balance it up with reasoning or support, rather than just plain, negative, ignorant abuse.

Clearly anything I or any other Arsenal fan says on here has no effect on you as you're non-stop and single-minded with your views. My only real gripe was that you were doing it in any thread you could. Keep it all in here, on topic and I'll be happy and almost willing to discuss it.
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Postby Pokerkings » Mon May 07, 2012 6:23 pm

First, I will use whatever thread I like. Because you can't handle criticism of Wenger doesn't mean I have to walk on eggshells around you.

And what you've posted isn't constructive, it's excuse making. It's the same boring crap you get from people who have supported Arsenal since Wenger arrived at the club.

On your others points, I don't give a flying monkey's what other clubs have done against Norwich. You are now comparing us to Spurs and Newcastle? wow! what progression after 16 years!

Look, if you're prepared to give Wenger his 8th chance then that's up to you and Zinc.

Personally, I want a much better manager.
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Postby Zinc » Mon May 07, 2012 6:30 pm

Pokerkings wrote:First, I will use whatever thread I like. Because you can't handle criticism of Wenger doesn't mean I have to walk on eggshells around you.

And what you've posted isn't constructive, it's excuse making. It's the same boring crap you get from people who have supported Arsenal since Wenger arrived at the club.

On your others points, I don't give a flying monkey's what other clubs have done against Norwich. You are now comparing us to Spurs and Newcastle? wow! what progression after 16 years!

Look, if you're prepared to give Wenger his 8th chance then that's up to you and Zinc.

Personally, I want a much better manager.


It's alright if your Wenger criticisms are relevant but you do keep repeating yourself in each and every thread, it always turns into the same thing with you, apart from when we went on that winning run and you were much more quiet.

As you didn't like J-Axes example, here's one for you - why couldn't Alex Ferguson motivate his players to beat Everton?

Do Everton have better players than United? No.

Are they fighting for anything? (survival/Europe) No.

Were they at home? Nope.

Manchester United were fighting for the title but Ferguson failed to get his team to win at home - a high scoring draw with terrible defending...sounds familiar.

I actually agree with you that Wenger obviously made huge mistakes over the Norwich match, we clearly didn't show them enough respect and failed to do the most simple bits of defending at the back which we've seen all too often this year, but I also don't recognise it as a sign of the apocalypse.
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Postby Pokerkings » Mon May 07, 2012 6:54 pm

Zinc wrote:
Pokerkings wrote:First, I will use whatever thread I like. Because you can't handle criticism of Wenger doesn't mean I have to walk on eggshells around you.

And what you've posted isn't constructive, it's excuse making. It's the same boring crap you get from people who have supported Arsenal since Wenger arrived at the club.

On your others points, I don't give a flying monkey's what other clubs have done against Norwich. You are now comparing us to Spurs and Newcastle? wow! what progression after 16 years!

Look, if you're prepared to give Wenger his 8th chance then that's up to you and Zinc.

Personally, I want a much better manager.


It's alright if your Wenger criticisms are relevant but you do keep repeating yourself in each and every thread, it always turns into the same thing with you, apart from when we went on that winning run and you were much more quiet.

As you didn't like J-Axes example, here's one for you - why couldn't Alex Ferguson motivate his players to beat Everton?

Do Everton have better players than United? No.

Are they fighting for anything? (survival/Europe) No.

Were they at home? Nope.

Manchester United were fighting for the title but Ferguson failed to get his team to win at home - a high scoring draw with terrible defending...sounds familiar.

I actually agree with you that Wenger obviously made huge mistakes over the Norwich match, we clearly didn't show them enough respect and failed to do the most simple bits of defending at the back which we've seen all too often this year, but I also don't recognise it as a sign of the apocalypse.


Quiet was I?

This was my posts in the Wolves thread, the end of our winning streak (3-0)

Wolves vs Arsenal Thread:

Pokerkings wrote:Ramsey should go on loan to f**king Aldershot. He is nowhere near Arsenal class, nowhere near.

Wenger probably writing up his new contract as we speak!

Pokerkings wrote:We are so sloppy.

Zinc wrote:
KimKallstrom2 wrote:
Pokerkings wrote:Tottenham, mind the GAP!! Tottenham, Tottenham mind the GAP!
Tottenham, mind the GAP!! Tottenham, Tottenham mind the GAP!!
Tottenham, mind the GAP!! Tottenham, Tottenham mind the GAP!!


PS: sack Wenger


No, it's: WENGER OUT!



Pokerkings wrote:No, It's: 8 years without a single little trophy.

Pokerkings wrote::lol:

Love that trophy pic.

Of course it's great to have back the bragging rights, I've had 4 months of wind up's from Spud mates around me.

But, you still have to put things into perspective, no one remembers a 3rd place finish over trophies in the history books.

It's true, we are the form team in the Premier league right now, and should absolutely be targeting the Premier league next season. I am however a bit worried Wenger will look at the form and decide we dont need strengthening, which will be typical Wenger.

Getting 3rd, and with the money we have, we should be very ambitious, and for once go into a season with an embarrassment of riches rather than hoping to avoid injuries.

We need to be much better defensively next season and need to add more offensively. If Wenger does that we will be in the position to challenge again. But we need to trust Wenger to make the right additions in the summer and put the club first rather than making more money, and I'm still not sure whether I do trust him to do that.


On the Ferguson and Everton game examples....ridiculous.

Comparing a team that are the current champions who sit on 86 points while Arsenal are on 67 must be considered a joke.
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Postby specnur » Mon May 07, 2012 8:45 pm

Pokerkings wrote:
On your others points, I don't give a flying monkey's what other clubs have done against Norwich. You are now comparing us to Spurs and Newcastle? wow! what progression after 16 years!


Progression is the FACT that you have a brand new state of the art stadium as foundation for financial gain,those other teams have put there money into buying players and trying to qualify for champions league and have failed . EVen so we have not got the team SPurs have got ,but the champions league 3rd spot is in our hands where it really should be in Spurs hands based on the squad they have available. The reality is is that Norwich have done well against better team than Arsenal have,but for some reason that doesn't register in your bizarre world.


Look, if you're prepared to give Wenger his 8th chance then that's up to you and Zinc.


He's earned the right to manage for as long as he wants ,or as long as it doesn't make sense to whoever runs that club.
You see all Wenger has to do is sit down and say this.

Ok ,i tried to build a team from the ground up while still remaining competitive in the champions league . As we all know we lost players i wanted to keep all throughout this campaign which made things very difficult because they were important players in the system i had created and players that were hard to replace. Take that and the fact that we have been "unlucky" ,but i would rather say victimized by an outrageous amount of career threatening injuries to players. We also have o consider that one of s could have predicted how strong and competitive the league has gotten since i started this rebuilding process ,it's been unbelievable and this season has been the toughest one yet ,but yet we are still 3rd in the table when teams have much deeper squads are beneath us.
I think i can take some blame for being naive wen it comes to player loyalty and relying on injured players to make full recoveries ,but i think we are definitely progressing as a team and with a few little adjustments to the added strength of the league we will be more competitive without question.

Now any man with an I.Q. above 80 can tell you that you would be crazy to sack this man given the facts he has stated here.



[code]
Personally, I want a much better manager.[
/code]


There isn't one! and you know it! It would be financial suicide to sack Wenger in this economy!
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Postby J-Axe » Mon May 07, 2012 8:52 pm

:lol:

Nothing can be said to you that will change your stance Pokers. You can say what you want, anywhere you want but I don't think it's practical for you to pollute and derail every thread with it. That's why I created this thread for you (us) to endure this merry-go-round of a debate whilst not ruining every other thread.

I'd back Zinc's example above. Man Utd were in the title race and conceded FOUR at OLD TRAFFORD to Everton to give Man City the advantage going into the derby which they also bottled. Everton, like Norwich had very little to play for and that can sometimes work in your advantage, no pressure on Everton and all the pressure on United. Just like us on Saturday.

Man Utd will finish above us as you point out but similarly will end the season trophyless. They did worse than us in Europe. They failed in the cups. They had the upper-hand in the league at vital points and bottled it. City spanked them 6-1 at Old Trafford. Blackburn beat them at Old Trafford. Anybody can beat anybody in this league.

Drawing 3-3 with Norwich isn't the absolute shock or absolute disaster that you make out. Every time we have a bad game you can't put it entirely down to Wenger. He takes responsibility because he picks the team but how is he culpable for the likes of Bacary Sagna having a bad game? Bac is a top, top RB, arguably the best in the World and you think he requires a specific amount of motivation from Wenger before each game to make him play to a decent level?

And the leaders within the team need to step up and motivate. In most cases the biggest motivators in a team are the captains or the biggest voices, not the Managers. Bergkamp, Adams, Campbell and Vieira are players who had those qualities. I think we do lack a proper leader these days and that's not solely down to Wenger either. Vermaelen, Song, RVP and Arteta have shown leadership qualities but haven't really stepped up vocally on the pitch (I don't know how the dressing room is at half-time). But I can say that we improved vastly in the second half and usually do in games where we are struggling - in fact how many games have we won this season after going down 1 or 2-0 in the first half? More than I can remember.

Motivation is not the problem. Tactics are not the problem. Defensive organization has to be improved most definitely but then again I can't help but point to the elephant in the room ---> NINETEEN different back four combinations due to injuries, mostly long-term injuries. Koscielny and Vermaelen rarely able to bond as as CB partnership. Sagna, Jenks, Djourou, Vermaelen, Gibbs, Santos, Mertesacker have all been injured at some point this season - at one point we had ALL of our fullbacks missing and that is a massive strain on resources. We've witnessed Francis Coquelin play RB and Ignasi Miquel play LB, out of position and inexperienced youngsters. We've missed Arteta desperately when he's been injured and Ramsey has disappointed, I've discussed this with Zinc in another thread, but then you have to consider that we didn't expect Jack Wilshere (arguably our best player last season who played more games than anyone) to miss the entire season through injury.

You have to look at the balance of things. It's not all negative like you make out. And it's not all down to Wenger. I can see that, Zinc can see that, specnur can see that - and every one of my Gooner pals can see that as can the other Gooners on other forums I visit. There will always be those fickle, uber negative folk like yourself who gets it set in their mind that Wenger isn't good enough and then spend the rest of his time at the Club slating him - not constructive criticism, like none of yours has been. As specnur agreed with me in the Norwich thread - where have you praised Wenger this season?

Now if you consider the quality of Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool and even Newcastle currently below us and the sheer power of City and United currently above us. It's the most difficult league in the world. Be grateful that we've still kept our head just above the water for so long despite lacking the spending power of those around us. Wenger has been absolutely bang on to invest in youth and try to create superstars because we can't compete for them in the market. If we offer Eden Hazard £100k per week then Man City can offer £150k, if we improve it to £160k then they go to £200k - just like how City ousted United just when they were about to capture Nasri.

The game will change gradually over time and we'll do well to keep up with certain Clubs around us.

Now, if we had the spending power of Man City and didn't win the league and in the next few years the Champions League then I'd most definitely sack Wenger. Mancini has been able to spend massive amounts and lure in the players he likes with ridiculous wages and even they've shown how difficult it is. They will win the league but just by the skin of their teeth and they flopped in Europe and in the cups which shows just how difficult it is.
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Postby Zinc » Mon May 07, 2012 11:31 pm

Pokerkings wrote:Quiet was I?

On the Ferguson and Everton game examples....ridiculous.

Comparing a team that are the current champions who sit on 86 points while Arsenal are on 67 must be considered a joke.


Yes, you were 'more quiet'.

The example is ridiculous? Nope, it's perfect - even the Mighty Champions run by Super Fergie who are 19 points ahead of terrible Arsenal run by that twat Wenger couldn't do the job - you heavily criticise Arsenal for it, well Manchester United did the same thing.

I'm not talking about the whole season, you picked out very specific examples and I showed you the same thing happened to Manchester United, you failed to address the argument.
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Postby chin-up » Tue May 08, 2012 7:31 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYNxbbUxmTI

The one & only, see your lovable Frenchie above.
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Postby Pokerkings » Tue May 08, 2012 9:02 am

Zinc wrote:
Pokerkings wrote:Quiet was I?

On the Ferguson and Everton game examples....ridiculous.

Comparing a team that are the current champions who sit on 86 points while Arsenal are on 67 must be considered a joke.


Yes, you were 'more quiet'.

The example is ridiculous? Nope, it's perfect - even the Mighty Champions run by Super Fergie who are 19 points ahead of terrible Arsenal run by that twat Wenger couldn't do the job - you heavily criticise Arsenal for it, well Manchester United did the same thing.

I'm not talking about the whole season, you picked out very specific examples and I showed you the same thing happened to Manchester United, you failed to address the argument.


No I addressed it perfectly.

Utd might have a blip against the odd team (Everton and Blackburn) but they didn't drop the points we have against the weaker teams. The Arsenal players were blatantly relaxed and unmotivated against Wigan, Q.P.R, Norwich...etc

3rd isn't the end of the World, I agree. But I can see the bigger picture, we are getting worse every season. And If Van Persie had his usual injury this season we would have been mid table, make no mistake, we were very lucky with him this season.

We are only were we are because the other teams around us have been as bad as us, Chelsea are manager-less, Liverpool might as well be, Tottenham had the England manager saga with Rednapp...etc.

I expect Chelsea to turn things around, Tottenham to spend, Liverpool to improve and we'll be looking to make another profit....

Thing is, everyone thinks that spending is the answer but it's not just that either, we have no defensive organisation, no discipline and more importantly, no tactics..
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Postby chin-up » Tue May 08, 2012 9:09 am

I expect Chelsea to turn things around, Tottenham to spend, Liverpool to improve and we'll be looking to make another profit....
This sentence should be framed for all Arsens fans.
The real deal Pokey strikes again.
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Postby Zinc » Tue May 08, 2012 9:22 am

Pokerkings wrote:
Zinc wrote:
Pokerkings wrote:Quiet was I?

On the Ferguson and Everton game examples....ridiculous.

Comparing a team that are the current champions who sit on 86 points while Arsenal are on 67 must be considered a joke.


Yes, you were 'more quiet'.

The example is ridiculous? Nope, it's perfect - even the Mighty Champions run by Super Fergie who are 19 points ahead of terrible Arsenal run by that twat Wenger couldn't do the job - you heavily criticise Arsenal for it, well Manchester United did the same thing.

I'm not talking about the whole season, you picked out very specific examples and I showed you the same thing happened to Manchester United, you failed to address the argument.


No I addressed it perfectly.

Utd might have a blip against the odd team (Everton and Blackburn) but they didn't drop the points we have against the weaker teams. The Arsenal players were blatantly relaxed and unmotivated against Wigan, Q.P.R, Norwich...etc

3rd isn't the end of the World, I agree. But I can see the bigger picture, we are getting worse every season. And If Van Persie had his usual injury this season we would have been mid table, make no mistake, we were very lucky with him this season.

We are only were we are because the other teams around us have been as bad as us, Chelsea are manager-less, Liverpool might as well be, Tottenham had the England manager saga with Rednapp...etc.

I expect Chelsea to turn things around, Tottenham to spend, Liverpool to improve and we'll be looking to make another profit....

Thing is, everyone thinks that spending is the answer but it's not just that either, we have no defensive organisation, no discipline and more importantly, no tactics..


I wasn't trying to claim that United have been as poor as us over the entire season, just point out that it might not be simply a motivational problem, sometimes the manager may have done his job and the players don't do theirs.

I agree on RVP, we've had our bad luck this year but we've also had plenty of good, especially with the teams around us like Chelsea and Spurs misfiring, we absolutely can't rely on luck next year so new players are a must this summer. Podolski is onboard, M'Vila might be - that's a good start but obviously we need more creative options in the final third, let's wait and see if we dip into the transfer market more this summer.

Again, I agree about defensive problems - our actual back line is made up of decent players - it's the organisation and balance of how they approach each game that causes our problems, but it's not just them, it's how the midfield operates too - the purchase of M'Vila would show that Wenger has recognised that and wants to build a cohesive unit for the future - Szczesny, Koscielny, Vermalen and M'Vila are all quite young, on paper a unit like that working together over the coming years is a really exciting prospect - with bould as our number 2 things might change defensively - things certainly weren't getting better under Rice so we'll have to wait and see, I know you've decided already it won't but I can't see into the future myself.
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Postby Zinc » Tue May 08, 2012 9:24 am

chin-up wrote:I expect Chelsea to turn things around, Tottenham to spend, Liverpool to improve and we'll be looking to make another profit....
This sentence should be framed for all Arsens fans.
The real deal Pokey strikes again.


Go look through my posts, I've been saying this for months, it's not just them - if Newcastle can hold onto their best they'll be taking points off the big boys too.
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Postby chin-up » Tue May 08, 2012 9:31 am

Zinc wrote:
chin-up wrote:I expect Chelsea to turn things around, Tottenham to spend, Liverpool to improve and we'll be looking to make another profit....
This sentence should be framed for all Arsens fans.
The real deal Pokey strikes again.


Go look through my posts, I've been saying this for months, it's not just them - if Newcastle can hold onto their best they'll be taking points off the big boys too.


Newcastle, occasionally might take some points off...under certain circumstances only.
Had Chelsea not needed to rest their top players SeneToons would not had won, then.
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Postby Pokerkings » Tue May 08, 2012 9:34 am

J-Axe wrote:Motivation is not the problem. Tactics are not the problem.



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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