I didn't say it meant anything. I simply posted it as an interesting statistic. Those BBC ratings are calculated through the use of statistics & football expertise opinions.

Take it with a pinch of salt or by the tail or in whichever way you wish. But I didn't follow it up with an opinion. I didn't see the game, so have no idea how Aliadière played. But on the radio, it sounded like he had a decent game when he was brought into play. Something which was quite rare due to the strength of Chelsea & the lack of support he got from his own Midfield.

It doesn't matter either way.

And Walcott has been rubbish lately, but from what I heard on the radio & from the highlights I seen - he didn't do too bad. At least a big improvement from his recent performances. And Walcott before his shoulder injury was an exciting young winger. Whenever he played, Arsenal created via Theo & the hype built itself around his form. But since the shoulder injury he's been useless.

Apparently it's a confidence issue & a physical problem. He is due to go and have an operation on the shoulder. But when you say, "I don't think he'll ever fulfill his potential," I can only laugh. He's 17 years old and you're judging his future abilities?

As Tony Adams said last week, nobody knows what Walcott will be in 7years. Nobody knows if his potential will be fulfilled. Nobody knows how much potential he actually has. So don't judge him or his future. Nobody thought Thierry Henry would become a World beater when he arrived at Highbury. Only Wenger seemed to believe that and Tony Adams admitted he wasn't much impressed by this pacey French winger who was stuck up alongside Bergkamp as a supposed Ian Wright replacement.

That all worked. Walcott can work too, he's clearly intelligent, athletically great & good with the ball at his feet. So training with Thierry Henry everyday is bound to help and playing Carling Cup finals, Champions League games & tough Premiership opponents will only help him gain enough experience to grow into a star.

It's always hard to call on a player's future, but I personally think that he has what it takes to become a star at Arsenal. But we'll just have to wait and see.

And yes, I agree, the media & the hype surrounding him is ridiculous. He's being hugely overrated & the expectation levels are growing & growing. But that's typical English.

This is a great thread. loads of banter.... LOVE IT

So is terry ok now then?

J-Axe:

I didn't say it meant anything. I simply posted it as an interesting statistic.

If it doesn't mean anything, why mention it?

All summed up; Arsenal should be very proud that their boys reached the final, beating several top Premiership sides.
They did well in the final against the best team in the country (that's going to spark a debate, no doubt! ) and a draw would probably have been a fair result.

They must learn to keep their heads though. Learning bad habits from their manager.

Simply because it was an interesting statistic to do with a game & a player that was in discussion.

I don't question why all other posters talk or post nonsense. I just read, comprehend & either reply or let go. I don't see no problem with the fact that I produced.

You didn't state a fact though, you stated someone else's opinion and used it in defence of Aliadiere. The only fact in that is, the fact that you reproduced somebody else's opinion.

It's not a statistic either.

It's a fact that Aliadière was rated higher on the BBC than all those players I mentioned. I posted that, as an interesting statistic. And it's worked out statistically & noted down statistically on the BBC website.

And I'm laughing at the fact that I'm having to explain why I used the word "fact" in a sentence. Because you idiots would argue a still smilie.

It's also a fact that Henry was going to sign for Liverpool at one point, I seen it on a website.

The fact that the rumour existed cannot be taken away.

dear oh dear Axe Man you spout as much nonsense as the rest of the forum at times (including myself)

Here's a few facts for you to consider; Theo Walcott is young. Theo Walcott is new to the Club. Theo Walcott has raw abilities. Theo Walcott is growing & learning as a footballer.

How many footballers decline at the age of 17? He will only improve.

So rubbishing his future just because of what you see now is idiotic.

And there is a difference between maturing & improving as a footballer than fulfilling your potential.

You could have safely said that Henry had what it took to become a star at Arsenal, but anybody who said he would never fulfill his potential couldn't have been more wrong - you're suggesting that same thing with Walcott here, and I'm laughing because I feel you're wrong. Henry was a fast Winger with a few goals here & there to add to his name, yet Wenger believed he could be a star, he became a star. He has similiar confidence in Walcott and I'm following suit, from my own point of view.

But for you as an onlooker to rubbish his future does make me laugh.

would you care to point out where i rubbished his future...

i said i dont think he will fulfill the potential and hype of the media who seem to think he is the best thing since sliced bread.

why is is comical to say i dont think he is as good as people claim? you say similar things about Rooney who is still young. i have not seen anything from walcott to put him in the top bracket of players now or in the future. on the ball he is less than impressive and only has speed in his armoury. he is not very skillfull and doesnt have a great touch. IMO to compare him or put him up there with henry is comical. yes he is young, and is always time for improvement but you can still get an idea of a players ability and how they cope with real competition. there has been nothing to suggest he will be or is a top player from any of his performances. i think you are wrong to blindly have faith in wenger and ignore the glaringly obvious fact that he has been poor most of the time and little more than average at best. i think he will become a good premiership player but nothing more.

it was a rough match.

He has bags of skill and shows good first touch. His first Arsenal goal is a perfect example of both.

Yes, he has struggled since his shoulder injury & has been rubbish. If that's an excuse or not, he has & will be hugely overrated.

But he has intelligence, maturity and all the raw abillities that all the star players had when they were young. He is reminiscent of a young Henry and Wenger always knew Henry to become a star.

I don't have blind faith in that, I've watched Walcott in every performance except yesterday's game - OK, for the Reserves he's been magic because he's playing against lesser opposition and his early games for Arsenal were impressive & very promising. Then he was out with the injury and since returning, he's been rubbish.

I jumped to conclusions & took it as if you were having a swipe at Arsenal (per usual), Wenger & Walcott. I realise you just believe that he won't become the player you think he is capable of being (somehow).

But I'll accept that and we'll have to wait and see. You're opinion was sternly made, whilst my opinion on his potential future was simply that he could become a star on evidence of the current talent he possesses that will only grow in time - boosted by the fact that he's at such an illustrious Club.

No need to start name calling, J. Don't lower your level.

I back you up on Walcott though. Of course, time will tell how good the boy will end up, but under Wenger's tutelage, I personally reckon he will develop into a fantastic player, in Michael Owen's mould. He's already better than Franny Jeffers

I can't be bothered reading through all of this thread but J, would you accept that Arsenal are bad losers? I mean, I hear you time and time again saying that you love players expressing themselves and showing their emotion blah blah blah, but how do you feel about the reaction of Fabregas (again) and Toure? Could you defend that?

Well it's absolute nonsense.

Touré has never behaved like that in his life, Touré is not a bad loser - he's always been an honest & genuine footballer, sure when he handballed the ball onto the post against Man United, he confessed to the Referee at half-time and admitted that he did! The only time I see him jumping about screaming at people is when he's trying to make our Defenders defend or our Attackers attack. He's a passionate man, of a kind I've not seen as a football fan.

I think this whole ruckass was blown out of proportion per usual especially between him & Mikel - they should have settled their differences, put the ball down and played on, Touré probably collecting a yellow card for his reaction. I'd prefer it if they got the ball down & played on without any mouthing - hence my support for Cesc's outburst of emotions after the game against Blackburn.

Eboué has an awful attitude. When he's winning or losing, he'll cheat, moan, yap & scrap for the sake of it. He's a bit strange in that way. I've always pointed this out and I can't stand his attitude - I don't know how Wenger treats it or anything, but clearly not doing a good enough job.

Cesc shouldn't have got involved, although do you know why he did? Lampard attended to the Touré situation & Cesc followed him to take him out of the way. But you know, once one does, another does & another & another. Lampard was in Touré's face & Cesc intercepted, wrestling him (hehe) away from Touré.

Adebayor joined in the ruckass that many players were involved with. He was sent off by mistaken identity.

So the only man I can point the finger at is Eboué - like I've always done. He's the only one who threw a punch at Bridge (who's pansy collapse was ridiculous).

Touré - made a mistake & apologised, he should have kept his cool like he always does.
Adebayor - was sent off for nothing none of the other players in the scenario was guilty of - it was a mistaken identity, Adebayor had only come on a short while before in attempt to win/equalise. You can understand his frustration & anger at being sent off for no reason given.
Cesc - I've explained his position in it all.
Eboué - Fool.

You can call us bad losers after this melee, but I'll have you know that Adebayor & Cesc (and the other Arsenal players) did nothing more than any of the Chelsea players. Look at Essien, Lampard, Bridge, Carvalho etc. joining in with it all.

When there is 7/8mins stoppage time, you don't kick up a fuss before that time starts to tick about losing.

So, no I don't think we're bad losers in that scenario. The game was still on a good while before/after/during it.

I agree with a lot of that J. The only thing I'd pull you up on is that you said only Eboue was to blame; I say more Toure as he started the melee in the first place. You're right about him in that he does normally have a good attitude, though.

When I asked the question, I was meaning in general rather than actually based on that game alone. Hence, I think Cesc is a bad loser. The Teddy spat after Arsenal lost, the Hughes spat after Arsenal drew, now this after Arsenal were losing. It wasn't just his involvement in the fight, either. I didn't like the way he rolled on the floor clutching his face after one of the Chelsea players put a hand on his upper chest. Would he have reacted like that if Arsenal were winning? Same with Toure. Would he have got so mad like that if Arsenal are winning? What do you think, J?

I personally think that Arsene Wenger is a bad loser, and this transmits itself to the players.

Possibly. As an Arsenal fan, it's nothing something I'd concentrate on too much. I generally won't look at player's reactions, performances & foul-play in games to determine if they are bad losers or not.

I didn't see the Cesc face-holding incident/clash. I unfortunately couldn't watch the game, but watched the ruckass & the goals via highlight videos.

I know Wenger hates losing & I know most of the players, especially Cesc, hates to lose. But who doesn't?

But I wouldn't call Arsenal bad losers. Some players don't take it as well as others, some have too much to say & some can be arrogant & disrespectful. But I'm personally sick of hearing all these attacks on certain Arsenal players because of little incidents scooped up & meshed together.

Cesc is a talented young footballer, a winner and a passionate footballer. He is very young and has no less of an attitude than a Rooney_79586.shtml'>Wayne Rooney. Cesc doesn't abuse Referees constantly throughout a game, becaus of little decisions that go against him. You know? And I don't hear Rooney_79586.shtml'>Wayne Rooney complaints about his mouthing, his abusive language, his arrogance or his bad loser attitude. He has improved over the course of a season or two and I think you'll see Cesc improve in that sense too.

Maybe I'll watch his game, his reactions, his fouls, his mouthing & his comments in the next few months & let you know if I think he's a sore loser. But as an Arsenal fan (as I'm sure you'll understand) the most of what I can see is Cesc, the extremely talented youngster, a passionate winner who expresses himself when he feels the need to.

Touré didn't intend on causing a mass brawl. He only wanted to deal with Mikel & get at him for his shirt-pulling or whatever. He didn't ask for Lampard to join in, or Cesc, or Carvalho, or Adebayor. It's been blown out of proportion & I really feel sorry for all the young Arsenal players (and older players of course) who kept their discipline & mouths shut.

From what I seen, all Denílson did was play football, really good football at that. As did Hoyte, Traoré, Senderos, Diaby, Aliadière, Hleb, Almunia and so on. A lot of them did gather around the ruckass too, but they don't deserve to be branded bad losers, when all they did throughout the game was work hard to win.

Eboué let us down, as he always does. Touré overreacted which sparked it all & a lot of the other players joined in on the ruckass. Chelsea are not the victims in it either. But I certainly expect all the opposition fans to point the finger at Arsenal only - not to sound like a victim, but that's how it usually is.

Nobody has complained about Lampard's part in it. Or Bridge's overreaction, diving collapse nor all the other Blueboys who joined in. Be fair & don't pick on 2 or 3 Arsenal players.

Eboué I will agree with you on. A sore loser, an awful attitude and a sure let down per usual. But if I were in Cesc's shoes I'd take those same responsibilities. Of course my red-tinted glasses are placed firmly around my eyes here, but what do you expect? Cesc is only ever a hero in my book. Just like the fly-kicking Cantona, the liver-abusing Best and the leg-snapping Keane or the abusive slabbering Rooney are all heroes to Man United men.

I canny help my feelings towards Cesc as an Arsenal man.

A couple of people on this thread (certainly Steely) has dished out stick for Bridge overreacting. I agree that Lampard did just as much wrong as Fabregas in the melee, I've just watched it again. Again, I stress that my opinion on Fab is based on several incidents this season. Same with Wenger, such as squaring up to Pardew and Jol (last season). And his constant moaning to fourth officials.

Rooney's temperament has improved considerably this season, hence there has been few if any reasons to discuss him.

Well, I've seen many other Managers argue, square up to each other & disagree about controversial decisions in big games - and all Managers complain to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th Officials for goodness sake. Warnock basically has a slabbering match with everyone of them every week. A lot of people find him to be 'funny'. Wenger complains when he feels the Officials aren't doing their job right - problem? None. The Officiating has been awful, they need told when they're wrong, particularly when against you're own team.

As Mourinho rightly put it, mature men can let emotion run over them. Wenger has had his outbursts on the sidelines & some of his interview comments on things Arsenal have been criticised for, he has protected his team.

Just like Ferguson claiming Ronaldo didn't dive when he did. Just like Mourinho slabbering about Messi cheating, where Drogba & Robben are doing it week in, week out. Just like Scolari claiming Ronaldo is not a cheat.

So many teams have cheats (Drogba, Gerrard etc.), arrogant players (Ronaldo, Barton etc.), liars (Drogba, Gerrard etc.), disrespectful slabbers (Rooney, Diouf etc.), backstabbers (Cole, Rooney etc.), hypocrites (Drogba, Gerrard etc.), physical abuse (Thatcher, QPR etc.) and bad losers. And Arsenal are full of honest & good Professionals (many of whom didn't take part in the melee on Sunday). So when you ask me are Arsenal a Club of players with all these tags to their name, I can only disagree. We are no worse than most other teams. Of course we have certain individuals who will let down the Club like anyone else. Even the most Professional of players can let their emotions get the better of them, demonstrated by Mr. Touré.

In recent weeks, Cesc has disrespectfully exchanged words with Mark Hughes (after a game, off the pitch) and he has apologised for that. Touré reacted badly for once in his career & Lampard's reaction helped cause a brawl. Touré get's his punishment & he apologises.

I see no problems and I don't see how those two incidents in recent weeks have made us a such a target to be picked on.

Forgetting Eboué's existence at Arsenal, I still have been let down by Arsenal in the past few weeks. More so for their poor football displays e.g. Blackburn & PSV. Where we should have won both & came away with tougher replays to face. Henry's dive even sticks out miles above this melee. Although, the forum crew have already bummed the heck out of that incident.

Agreed Axe.

I think as well it's easy to sit in the stands or watch the game from home, but when your out there running your socks off and your heart is beating like 10 mens! and you have silly decisions (again) go against you it's hard to keep your cool as we found out with Toure.

We had Chelsea chasing shadows!! then they hooooooooofff!!!! the ball up to Drogba who is offside and scores. And if you watch the replay even Drogba thinks he's offside before he shoots!! but you get some you lose some. Just like when Adebayor is through on goal and gets ruled offside??? but was clearly onside by 2 yards!!

When your a player and your having the above go against you then Mikel starts time wasting and pulling back Toure, there is no wonder in my mind why he lost his cool. He is only human after all.

Another point while this forum always seems to have their digs at the Arsenal players.... I don't know if your saw this Axe but when Terry was injured and first went down it was the Arsenal players that were SCREAMING!! for assitance from Gary Lewin to help him in which he did. All Lampard was worried about was getting the Captin's armbaned!! Then as Terry is being Stretchered off the Arsenal fans give him a standing ovation!!! Compared to the Chelsea scum who were all throwing objects at Fabby when trying to take a corner. Funny how some of the idiots on here failed to mention that!!!!

As for Aliadiere he was useless... but in saying that had a lot more of the ball than Drogba, but Drogba scored well one perfectly good goal anyway.....


“I HAVE EXCERISED THE DEMONS!!!! ……….this forum……..is clear………”

errhhhh….losers.

Just to make you happy, I think Warnock is a bad loser also. I think both of them are bad losers.

Pokerkings01 how is Mikel time wasting by pulling some1 back? it's a foul not running the ball in the corner. i remember this season when rsenal were playing Blackburn and instead of throwing the ball back he held onto it which gave Sparky the idea of knocking the ball out of Wengers hand, now thats time wasting.
Toure was the 1 who start the fight, who goes beserk when pulled back? any1?he over reacted big time.
An then you talk bout things going against you. Well we had 1 of our only 2 fit centre back go off so we had to put a midfielder in defense, also we had a Defensive midfielder at right back. Also hit the woodwork twice.