I agree with a lot of that J. The only thing I'd pull you up on is that you said only Eboue was to blame; I say more Toure as he started the melee in the first place. You're right about him in that he does normally have a good attitude, though.

When I asked the question, I was meaning in general rather than actually based on that game alone. Hence, I think Cesc is a bad loser. The Teddy spat after Arsenal lost, the Hughes spat after Arsenal drew, now this after Arsenal were losing. It wasn't just his involvement in the fight, either. I didn't like the way he rolled on the floor clutching his face after one of the Chelsea players put a hand on his upper chest. Would he have reacted like that if Arsenal were winning? Same with Toure. Would he have got so mad like that if Arsenal are winning? What do you think, J?

I personally think that Arsene Wenger is a bad loser, and this transmits itself to the players.

Possibly. As an Arsenal fan, it's nothing something I'd concentrate on too much. I generally won't look at player's reactions, performances & foul-play in games to determine if they are bad losers or not.

I didn't see the Cesc face-holding incident/clash. I unfortunately couldn't watch the game, but watched the ruckass & the goals via highlight videos.

I know Wenger hates losing & I know most of the players, especially Cesc, hates to lose. But who doesn't?

But I wouldn't call Arsenal bad losers. Some players don't take it as well as others, some have too much to say & some can be arrogant & disrespectful. But I'm personally sick of hearing all these attacks on certain Arsenal players because of little incidents scooped up & meshed together.

Cesc is a talented young footballer, a winner and a passionate footballer. He is very young and has no less of an attitude than a Rooney_79586.shtml'>Wayne Rooney. Cesc doesn't abuse Referees constantly throughout a game, becaus of little decisions that go against him. You know? And I don't hear Rooney_79586.shtml'>Wayne Rooney complaints about his mouthing, his abusive language, his arrogance or his bad loser attitude. He has improved over the course of a season or two and I think you'll see Cesc improve in that sense too.

Maybe I'll watch his game, his reactions, his fouls, his mouthing & his comments in the next few months & let you know if I think he's a sore loser. But as an Arsenal fan (as I'm sure you'll understand) the most of what I can see is Cesc, the extremely talented youngster, a passionate winner who expresses himself when he feels the need to.

Touré didn't intend on causing a mass brawl. He only wanted to deal with Mikel & get at him for his shirt-pulling or whatever. He didn't ask for Lampard to join in, or Cesc, or Carvalho, or Adebayor. It's been blown out of proportion & I really feel sorry for all the young Arsenal players (and older players of course) who kept their discipline & mouths shut.

From what I seen, all Denílson did was play football, really good football at that. As did Hoyte, Traoré, Senderos, Diaby, Aliadière, Hleb, Almunia and so on. A lot of them did gather around the ruckass too, but they don't deserve to be branded bad losers, when all they did throughout the game was work hard to win.

Eboué let us down, as he always does. Touré overreacted which sparked it all & a lot of the other players joined in on the ruckass. Chelsea are not the victims in it either. But I certainly expect all the opposition fans to point the finger at Arsenal only - not to sound like a victim, but that's how it usually is.

Nobody has complained about Lampard's part in it. Or Bridge's overreaction, diving collapse nor all the other Blueboys who joined in. Be fair & don't pick on 2 or 3 Arsenal players.

Eboué I will agree with you on. A sore loser, an awful attitude and a sure let down per usual. But if I were in Cesc's shoes I'd take those same responsibilities. Of course my red-tinted glasses are placed firmly around my eyes here, but what do you expect? Cesc is only ever a hero in my book. Just like the fly-kicking Cantona, the liver-abusing Best and the leg-snapping Keane or the abusive slabbering Rooney are all heroes to Man United men.

I canny help my feelings towards Cesc as an Arsenal man.

A couple of people on this thread (certainly Steely) has dished out stick for Bridge overreacting. I agree that Lampard did just as much wrong as Fabregas in the melee, I've just watched it again. Again, I stress that my opinion on Fab is based on several incidents this season. Same with Wenger, such as squaring up to Pardew and Jol (last season). And his constant moaning to fourth officials.

Rooney's temperament has improved considerably this season, hence there has been few if any reasons to discuss him.

Well, I've seen many other Managers argue, square up to each other & disagree about controversial decisions in big games - and all Managers complain to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th Officials for goodness sake. Warnock basically has a slabbering match with everyone of them every week. A lot of people find him to be 'funny'. Wenger complains when he feels the Officials aren't doing their job right - problem? None. The Officiating has been awful, they need told when they're wrong, particularly when against you're own team.

As Mourinho rightly put it, mature men can let emotion run over them. Wenger has had his outbursts on the sidelines & some of his interview comments on things Arsenal have been criticised for, he has protected his team.

Just like Ferguson claiming Ronaldo didn't dive when he did. Just like Mourinho slabbering about Messi cheating, where Drogba & Robben are doing it week in, week out. Just like Scolari claiming Ronaldo is not a cheat.

So many teams have cheats (Drogba, Gerrard etc.), arrogant players (Ronaldo, Barton etc.), liars (Drogba, Gerrard etc.), disrespectful slabbers (Rooney, Diouf etc.), backstabbers (Cole, Rooney etc.), hypocrites (Drogba, Gerrard etc.), physical abuse (Thatcher, QPR etc.) and bad losers. And Arsenal are full of honest & good Professionals (many of whom didn't take part in the melee on Sunday). So when you ask me are Arsenal a Club of players with all these tags to their name, I can only disagree. We are no worse than most other teams. Of course we have certain individuals who will let down the Club like anyone else. Even the most Professional of players can let their emotions get the better of them, demonstrated by Mr. Touré.

In recent weeks, Cesc has disrespectfully exchanged words with Mark Hughes (after a game, off the pitch) and he has apologised for that. Touré reacted badly for once in his career & Lampard's reaction helped cause a brawl. Touré get's his punishment & he apologises.

I see no problems and I don't see how those two incidents in recent weeks have made us a such a target to be picked on.

Forgetting Eboué's existence at Arsenal, I still have been let down by Arsenal in the past few weeks. More so for their poor football displays e.g. Blackburn & PSV. Where we should have won both & came away with tougher replays to face. Henry's dive even sticks out miles above this melee. Although, the forum crew have already bummed the heck out of that incident.

Agreed Axe.

I think as well it's easy to sit in the stands or watch the game from home, but when your out there running your socks off and your heart is beating like 10 mens! and you have silly decisions (again) go against you it's hard to keep your cool as we found out with Toure.

We had Chelsea chasing shadows!! then they hooooooooofff!!!! the ball up to Drogba who is offside and scores. And if you watch the replay even Drogba thinks he's offside before he shoots!! but you get some you lose some. Just like when Adebayor is through on goal and gets ruled offside??? but was clearly onside by 2 yards!!

When your a player and your having the above go against you then Mikel starts time wasting and pulling back Toure, there is no wonder in my mind why he lost his cool. He is only human after all.

Another point while this forum always seems to have their digs at the Arsenal players.... I don't know if your saw this Axe but when Terry was injured and first went down it was the Arsenal players that were SCREAMING!! for assitance from Gary Lewin to help him in which he did. All Lampard was worried about was getting the Captin's armbaned!! Then as Terry is being Stretchered off the Arsenal fans give him a standing ovation!!! Compared to the Chelsea scum who were all throwing objects at Fabby when trying to take a corner. Funny how some of the idiots on here failed to mention that!!!!

As for Aliadiere he was useless... but in saying that had a lot more of the ball than Drogba, but Drogba scored well one perfectly good goal anyway.....


“I HAVE EXCERISED THE DEMONS!!!! ……….this forum……..is clear………”

errhhhh….losers.

Just to make you happy, I think Warnock is a bad loser also. I think both of them are bad losers.

Pokerkings01 how is Mikel time wasting by pulling some1 back? it's a foul not running the ball in the corner. i remember this season when rsenal were playing Blackburn and instead of throwing the ball back he held onto it which gave Sparky the idea of knocking the ball out of Wengers hand, now thats time wasting.
Toure was the 1 who start the fight, who goes beserk when pulled back? any1?he over reacted big time.
An then you talk bout things going against you. Well we had 1 of our only 2 fit centre back go off so we had to put a midfielder in defense, also we had a Defensive midfielder at right back. Also hit the woodwork twice.

Pokey i have honestly given up replying to your completely inaccurate one sided posts and henceforth shall pretend you have not even posted

How is someone time by pulling him back when on the attack? erh you answered your own question Mikey boy! When we were trying to come back and we were in your half all you did was foul!

And I believe it's ok to run a ball into a corner because you have a chance of winning the ball back at least which I know your talking about what Arsenal do.

Fouling players as soon as they enter your half of the pitch is wrong and you were getting away with it because you had the linesman and ref in your pocket.

Were have I been inaccurate?

Again Steely you post a dig without being able to back it up.

Pokerkings01 if we give away a foul then the ref will give you a free kick. time wating is taking ages for goal kicks and running the ball into the corner which none of that happened.

all you do is go on and on about the referee and linesman being wrong

do you even know the rules of football? do you not think maybe you are wrong?

they hoof the ball to drogba for the 1st goal? it was a superb through ball from ballack to drogba. how blind can you be?

adebayor was "onside by two yards"? do you have any concept of measurements?

as i said, you are unbelievable. i wonder if you watch the same games as i do

Of course I will go on about the linesman and the Ref! We were robbed!!!

Yes I know the rules of football.

No, I don't think I'm wrong, do you?

1. Was Drogba offside?

2. Did Adebayor, our chance of equalising get sent off for doing nothing?

3. Was Adebayor onside when he went one on one with Cech? to be then ruled offside?

I think the question is what game do you watch?

Steely Steely Steely. Well said mate i agree with all that.

You're right I think... But they are paid WELL enough to stop and think for a moment and thats one of the reason we call them professionals.

What a quality thread and quality game up to a point.

Before the match I said i said i dont care who wins as long as they slaughter each other doing it and it almost came true!

2. Theo "more pressure than Rooney" Walcott scored a superb goal past one of the best keepers in the world

Pokerkings seriously what? Why even make a comment like that? U are possibly the most biased person on here ur comments are ridiculously one sided. Do you try and [beep!] off as many people in one post as possible?

I agree that the terry incident could have been given as a foul or not it all comes down to the referee on the day to make the snap decision. Fair dues to the Arsenal physio showed fantastic compassion to another human being as well as the Arsenal players/fans as well, again up to a point.

Well Gary Lewin will know Terry very well. Since he's the England physio too.

like the avatar Axe Man of "Fabby" calming matters down by grabbing his opponent round the neck

aaah didnt know that about his connection to england makes a bit more sense now i wondered why it was Arsenals physio and not Chelseas attending to him