UEFA Cup Winners..

I was thinking when Platini was rambling on about the domestic cup winners gaining Champions League entry that he'd missed something here.

It isn't the FA Cup that needs a revamp, or a Champions League place for a team that'll get slaughtered. It won't break up any hierarchy in the domestic league, no matter how much you want it to.

Now on the other hand you have a perfect chance to revamp what is becoming a stale (the group stages doesn't help) UEFA Cup competition.

A lot of the bigger sides slip out without much thought and don't take it seriously - why? Because when you've been playing in the Champions League for a few years, the UEFA Cup seems rather worthless.

If you gave a real prize at the end of the tunnel for teams, you'd find all the sides dropping out of the Champions League in third place going for gold till the end.

I personally remember the competition best in the early 2000's when Liverpool were in the competition, and just look at the teams we had to play:

Rapid Bucureþti
FC Slovan Liberec
Olympiacos
A.S. Roma
FC Porto
FC Barcelona
Deportivo Alavés

Now, with the exception of maybe Slovan Liberac - and possibly Alavés - they are all very well known clubs. The four in the middle especially are very competant sides. Also were included such teams as Inter Milan, PSV, Parma and Celta Vigo (both who used to be much better than they are now).

A year later, Arsenal's route to the final:

FC Nantes Atlantique
Deportivo de La Coruña
Werder Bremen
RC Lens
Galatasaray

With such teams as Juventus, Roma, Dortmund and Monaco in the mix.

Now, compare these to Middlesbrough's passage, who played Steaua Bucureþti in the semi-finals. The sort of team who i would have expected to see meet Liverpool in the early rounds.

Maybe there's reason to say the competition's getting weaker? Or maybe Liverpool fluked a bad run and the competition overall is the same? Either way, is there a way to make it more competitive? Your thoughts..

I dont think theres any way to do it really. European football is becoming increasingly repetitive with the same top teams in Europe every single season. Bayern Munich are an exception but generally because of money no new teams are able to compete anymore. Sevilla are giving it a good shot but I can see them falling away next season. Unless theres something done to more evenly distribute money between clubs then its going to be all the top teams in the CL with the 2nd rate teams making the UEFA cup

I think the winners should go into the CL.

Rubbish, in my opinion.

Champions League should be for the Champions of each country only.
I think the fact you can finish 4th in your domestic league and still qualify is a joke, let alone win the UEFA Cup and qualify.

well said jinxy

I doubt you would have been saying that if you finished 4th last season?

I think the set up is ok.... the first two teams go straight through and 3rd and 4th still have to qualify against other teams. It's fair enough.

There wouldn't be enough teams otherwise.

Obviously if we qualified I'm not going to complain.
But I do believe The Champions League should just be that, whatever way you dress it up it shouldn't incorporate "runner-up" or below. If you are going to include those teams, then it shouldn't be called The Champions League for starters.

the Champions League has far too many teams.

it should be a straight knockout competition with an ordinary draw and minimal seedings, like the FA Cup.

of course that wouldnt line the fat cats pockets enough would it and therein lies the problem. they have raped the competition so much that they clubs in it now simply cant afford to miss out, their whole turnover depends on it so UEFA wouldnt dare change the format for fear of upsetting some powerful people.

West Ham finished 5th and never made the UEFA Cup a few season's back, thats how it should be. mediocrity should not be rewarded.

its no coincidence there is a Big Four and the rest while we have 4 CL qualifying slots.

money talks and i hope it blows up in their faces

I agree it should be called The European Cup of something...

But would the CL still be a great competition if it didn't have all four English clubs in it: Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool?

Its irrelevant, in my opinion.
As Steely says, it includes the top four for financial reasons, not football reasons, and makes a mockery what should be an elite competition for Europe's finest from each individual league - the winners.

I personally would do away completely with the league set up in such competitions - it a Cup, a knock-out...not a "see how many games we can cram in to make as much money as we can" competition.

As it happens, i do agree the Champions League should be for Champions, but regardless of that it is more that the current format is misnamed than anything else. I really abhor the western domination in football, but changing that would be like moving mountains.

In any case i think the UEFA Cup winner has more right to a Champions League place than the fourth placed team domestically.

A lot of you say we should return to the knockout setup, with only the League winners involved. Maybe we should have the Cup-Winners Cup back too? The fact is they were tried, and whilst i didn't have much first hand experience of the format back then, i'm going to assume it didn't work. Although UEFA do have a habit of changing things for changing sake..

But hey, this has just totally turned into talking about the Champions League.

My point isn't how it'll effect the Champions League, it's how to improve the UEFA Cup. The first competition mentioned needs little change as it is, whereas the latter needs much.

Of course it's for football reasons.

If you leave Arsenal and Liverpool out, you're losing two potential winners. In the past few years Liverpool have made the final twice and Arsenal have made it once. That shows the strength of competition those Clubs provide, which is what makes the tournament great.

Of course it's ironic that it's called The Champions League and 4th placing sides can get through to it. In that case, change the name and it doesn't make a difference.

I think it's fine the way it is.

UEFA Cup winners earn enough for winning that competition. It's a good stepping stone up to the ECL, and if they made it so that UEFA Cup winners automatically qualify for the group stages of the ECL next season, that's a decent idea.

The idea is better than decent in principle, and it may be sensible to grant the same right to the finalist and even to the semi-finalists - in the form of admission to the third qualification round. It would greatly encourage "near-top" clubs at the latest stages of CU.

[quote="Steely Hill"]the Champions League has far too many teams.

it should be a straight knockout competition with an ordinary draw and minimal seedings, like the FA Cup.

Yes, the Champions League as such should; but it will make sense to widen admission, as much as possible, to the stages giving the chance of entry.

[quote="Pokerkings01"]I agree it should be called The European Cup of something...

But would the CL still be a great competition if it didn't have all four English clubs in it: Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool?[/quote]

It hardly would. You are the only country having at the time four teams able to win the CL without surpising anybody too much. Spain is closest to you but their number 3 and, especially, number 4, whoever they be, are not quite the case. That is why the approach should, IMHO, consist in giving a chance to everybody: a chance to England or Spain to have their four, a chance to Russia to have their two, and a chance to Belgium or Romania to have their only representative. The current system has too many fixed - instead of "floating" - elements.

I voted "no"

Champions League is full of teams that shouldn't be there.

I'm sticking with what I've always thought. Which is Champions League should be for champions ONLY. Or at least change the name fgs.

After I posted my post above I then spotted yours m8.



Great minds think alike.

[quote="Bluenose"]I voted "no"

Champions League is full of teams that shouldn't be there.

I'm sticking with what I've always thought. Which is Champions League should be for champions ONLY. Or at least change the name fgs.[/quote]

... and that'll be enough. Call it, say, "the Euroliga", as is the case in basketball and hockey - why not, there are lots of variants not using the word "champions". As for teams that "shouldn't be there", there are some 10-12 teams in Europe who are able to win the CL. Does it mean that the others "shouldn't be there"? True, the League is full of teams who are able, at their best, to form a more or less decent background - not more - and to bite once a year a top team who proves to be too self-confident. But such teams are an integral element of any event. As for complete 'non-entities", who are too far below the mark to create even the slightest problems to others, they are not frequent guests in the CL.

The case is though, the Champions League is what it is - a tornament for the best in Europe. It may not be for Champions, but that's irrelevant as it's not going to change. For the record, i think the Champions League should be for the Champions of each country (or, like you said, make it the 'European Cup' at very least).

Giving the winner of the UEFA Cup a Champions League spot isn't about the Champions League, it's about the UEFA Cup and making it more competitive - which i believe it would.

I remember the days when the UEFA Cup, or Fairs Cup before it, were regarded as more difficult to win than the old European Cup, as a team often (but not always) peaked in the season they won their league and were not at their peak in the season they played in the European Cup, and the UEFA cup was fought out by teams who were reaching their peak, and there were more than one team from most countries competing.

With respect to the current teams in the UEFA cup, many leagues' representatives - English ones in particular - include teams who've no chance of winning their own league.

Things changed with the Champions League, and you got things like 2 La Liga teams playing in a final (Real Madrid v Valencia 2000) when neither had qualified as champions in their own country, or as holders.

I'm not giving any answers or suggestions here - just comments.

(I will have a think about the original question later )