Honestly, if we want Russia to reach play-off stage, we should rely on Lady Luck and her son Guus Hiddink as well. ))))

Do we know why Hargreaves did not play ? He is maybe the most intelligent English player skillfull as well and I am sure he could have done a job.

i used to question that too =) and also ferdinand!! i can't believe he's on the bench!! *screaming*
well ~ even if our coach ~ i mean ~ former coach ~ has been sacked ~ it can't still bring back england to the tournament T.T
and if i get to know his email ~ i'll send him a nasty email ~ i've never been so furious in my life >.<

Folks,
just let's imagine England could play this match, say, with Owen and Rooney and avoided the disaster.

The FA board would not sack McClaren then, may be, since the reasons for such decision may not be enough... Or what? McClaren stays in charge, continuing to manage England the way somewhat like he did before.

What do you think would be worse for England? Such a disaster, to become shock therapy, to sack McClaren and shake some players and team management, to learn the lesson, or may be draw or narrow victory in the match (with many fans still very unhappy with McClaren), followed by continuing McClaren coaching?

^ hmm... i thought there's an early issue about sacking mcclaren after the last match for qualification ~ so it basically doesn't matter to him whether england'd make it or not -.-?
but yeah ~ it's still the first time for me to learn about england being wiped out from a tournament like this ~ since i began to love football ~ so it might explain why T.T

brilliant

I agree with you bigbro! Capello has won something with every club he has coached!! The only downside to Capello taking over the english side is the lack of english he speaks! The F.A would not go far wrong with him! However I hope he does not take the job!!

You know i find it laughable when people talk about technical ability, and the lack of it in England.

Anybody with half an ounce of training in sports development will realise that the thing that seperates most of your saturday amateurs from the 30 million plus player isn't how quick his feet are or how many step overs he can achieve. the true professsionals best asset is his brain...

Ask yourself these questions ?

Why can david Beckham kick a ball 50 metres to ronaldo from right back and manage to drop it perfectly in ronaldo's stride ? (real madrid, beckhams first season)

Why can players like Ronaldinho round 2 or 3 players with ease always finding the right gaps and still manage to make it look simple.

Why does Drogba always manage to be in the right place at the right time inside the box?

The answer is the ability to read subconciously what is happening round about them and adapt their play to the situation. it is not quickness of feet that make players worth so much it is sharpness of mind.

Confidence also plays a big factor, when a striker is not scoring, it shows in their game, if a player starts a game badly they rarely get much better unless they manage to pull off something that builds their confidence.

Football is as much a skill of the mind as it is with the feet, trust me when i say McLaren done just as much damage to the England players mentally that physically. tinkering about with formations, style of play, line ups and training can all have an effect on a players confidence and form.

The proof of this will be when the players return to the familiar surroundings of their club, i have no doubt that most of the players that played on Wednesday will bounce back when back to familiar surroundings.

Maybe England doesn't allow players the same creative expression as other leagues but that problem lies at the door of the individual coaches and managers rather than the players.

Most semi pro players have the ability to play one touch football, it is the limited understanding of what is going on round about them that is usually what causes the one touch routine to break down.

No, you're chatting rubbish.

Simmy (and anyone wishing to argue the point): explain to me why Modric was clearly the best midfielder on Wednesday night, when playing up against Lampard and Gerrard? Forget the result too, that's irrelevant: I'm talking about the performance of those players. They couldn't get anywhere near him. More poignantly, you explain to me why 10 men of Brazil can still keep hold of the ball against 11 Englishmen back in 2002? Why Portugal bossed the midfield in 2004? Why France bossed the midfield in 2004? Can you see a pattern emerging here??!! World class teams always rule the midfield against England. The reason is because the English players are not as comfortable in possession, and why is this so? Because of the lack of technical ability in our players.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying ALL of England's players don't have a great technique. Rooney clearly has, as does Beckham and Joe Cole. But over the whole squad, they can't hold onto the ball as much as world class teams do.

England lack a Pirlo, a Fabregas, a Riquelme, a Xavi or a Deco...a midfielder who can dictate the pace of the game from the central midfield zone. Lampard's game is all about trying to get on the end of knock downs from the strikers. Gerrard is all about high energy, 200mph around the pitch. But neither of them are world class "playmakers". England's best playmaker is Scholes, but he's long gone. But one player isn't going to solve the possession problem - the WHOLE team should be comfortable on the ball, even the centre backs.

I'd like to point out that this isn't the only reason why England failed. Yes, the players do lack technical ability, but also the manager didn't use his players to the best of their ability. He was tactically naive - this is the second reason. The third is the injuries that England suffered. I'm certain that if Terry, Ferdinand (suspended), Ashley Cole, Rooney and Owen all played then England would have qualified.

A good manager makes the best use out of the players he has at his disposal. Sven won a very high percentage of matches for England, but when they faced world class teams they couldn't make an impression on the game because they couldn't get hold of the ball. This is why the issue of a lack of technique amongst England's players must be highlighted, not glossed over with muppets who shout "they lack passion" and "they're not trying hard enough". Kevin Keegan had passion and tried very hard to succeed, but the problem wasn't solved was it?

England must accept that by and large, their players are second rate. What we need is a manager who can mould these players into a solid, resilient unit and make us hard to beat again. I'm not saying bring him back at all, but we need to get back to the standard that Sven set i.e. qualifying, and then reaching the latter stages of tournaments.

Yep agreed, I was going to mention that point about Modric, you just dont see that sort of player in England. he's comfortable on the ball, a good dribbler, a good passer and great at keeping possession.

Ive been watching the South American World Cup qualifiers this week too and even average teams like Venezuela, Bolivia, Chile etc all have great technical midfielders who are comfortable on the ball and always play the simple pass.

The only player I can think of in England is Paul Scholes who plays like that. Scholes doesnt get forward as much anymore but when he was younger he was one of the best in the world yet because of the style of football in the Premiership he never fully showed his talents


Obviously technique alone isnt why the team is so average, Northern ireland and Scotland are no better but theyve got good managers in charge who have installed urgency and passion into the team. I think what Roy Keane said about the players ego's has a lot to do with it too. The Scots and N Irish players mainly play for smaller clubs but most of the England players are millionaires living glamorous lives. Their ego's are too big for their own good and they need a good kick up the arse to let them know theyre not performing the way they should because at the moment too many players are playing on reputation over performances

Joseph sure knows his sh!t. good post.




That's reminds me. I remember the other night after Crouch scored to make it 2-2 McClaren was virtually on the pitch screaming for all the players to get back which was a big mistake, it was the moment that ultimately sealed his fate. It remeinded me of one of them war films where the soldiers are under pressure and someone shouts "Fall back fall back".

Then you see him standing in the rain full of mud getting a bullet to the brain in slow motion....


Bye steve.....

NO. It was a [beep!] dream ball that you wish you could do in your dreams. To Beckham, it was very normal. Probably poor for his standard.

Hey, England have bad technical players.

english coaches rely more on the passion from their players instead of their tactical abillities.
a team should always play with a passion, but their tactics is what is most important.

Russia tactically outplayed england in their match and their group

Huntelaar,
btw., if you replace 'english' with 'russian' in your first line, then you get the feeling of very many (even most of) russian fans, really.

I'm not sure Russia completely outplayed England tactically. But may be outplayed in the most crucial moment... The 2nd half of the match in Moscow I would consider to be some burst of motivation, driven by self preservation in 'win-or-die' situation. (Something very similar to 1999 attempt to qualify for the World championship, when Russia put itself in almost hopeless position in their group and have had to defeat reigning World champions France in Paris to keep their hope to qualify.) I'm personally not satisfied with tactical skills of Russia yet, especially in defense.

But finally of course it was Israel and then Croatia who were deciding the fate of Russia and England, in matches that seemed dead for them.

Sure, passion is an important ingredient, but true skills are needed if the team (no matter which) wants to avoid Russian roulette.

I can definantly relate to the pain english fans are feeling, we(holland) also got knocked out(WC 2002) dramtically with a all-star team.
I can only say if you think it stings now wait till next summer.

btw
Sparkyjinx you have the best avatar EVER!

Huntelaar, I didn't mean that, sorry. Btw., many fans think Euro 2008 without England may be less bright, and one needs to be blind to disagree. Anyway, seeing your team gives everything and a bit more, plays beautiful game but falls to a bit stronger team, makes their fans feel somewhat different from seeing poor play with the same result. I'm not sure we love football only for points and tournament results. Sure Russia will get what they deserve next summer. As well as any other team. Anyway both Russia and England have a lot of things to improve.

You know i find it farcical that people will sit and argue that technically gifted players will always shine through verses system and line up.

Scotland is ranked 62 in the world, France is ranked in the top ten. they met twice during the qualifiers. who won both games?....suprise suprise.....Scotland...

the top international clubs in the world, Barcelona went to Glasgow and came away with a 0-0 draw having some of the best attackers in the world. Lyon one of the best teams in european football got humped by Rangers 3-0.

how many times have the top sides in europe been overturned by an inferrior team, on paper the bigger clubs should have won easily...the truth of the matter is, you can overload your team with the best players in the world, but if they can't play within the system and can't perform with the players around them then they are going to lose.

Ask any celtic supporter about managers and shocking results and they will say the same thing....inverness caley thistle.

John Barnes was hopeless and it took getting beat from a team from a lower division to highlight that he was hopeless.

if memory serves right, Rangers got beaten by a team from a couple of leagues below when they had a sh*t hot team.

The FA cup has pulled some crackers, with premier teams being mugged left right and centre. Having eleven class players is just the start. but if they can't play within the system provided or in the line up then they are bound to lose...

Stop talking Sesame Street will you, if you have something to say be man enough to say it

Respect men!
plz don't ban russian fan, only because I wrote in russian....))) sorry nax!)))

Please use English - Cyrillic alphabet doesn't show here anyway - Twmcat