Manchester United - Arsenal in The FA Cup from Football.co.uk

mikeyboy77 · Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:37 pm

Forev wrote:

We played our reserves in the Carling Cup for the same reason Arsenal did, the Carling Cup isn't as important as the three other tournaments Sir Alex wants to win. That's why I just stated "certainly the most important ones. And we were dumped out because the players in the line-up didn't win the match, like they were expected to do... Chelsea also left out Cech, Carvalho, Ballack, Mikel, Drogba, Cole and Malouda, they simply have a better squad than every other team in the league.

I never called anyone champions, I said they had the attitude of champions because like Manchester United, they have been there and done it.

You say FA Cup quarter final as if it's nothing Laughing

No, I personally don't understand that because it's not what happened. You didn't sacrifice it, you were sacrificed in it and I don't know if you actually believe that yourself but it would take some believing for fans of any of the other "big four"...

But hey, lap up your lead at the minute, you're entitled to do so. I've already said you's should win it but by all means keep talking as if you already have, it will make it all the sweeter if or when you bottle it.

Good post mate. Think United will win the League, and if they do will be worthy Champions again. Unlike Arsenal

Johaldo8 · Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:37 pm

J-Axe wrote:

My opinions were that [based on the performance] we didn't want to win that game. That was my view. I'm not saying we didn't want to win it - but the performance tells that we didn't and we performed like we didn't want to win.

So to cut the long story short, you are saying that you didn�t want to win the game, which was what I said earlier. OK, at least we cleared that up then.

I disagree with the notion that Arsenal�s players did not try 100% to win this game; if that is true then it smacks of a lack of professionalism by Arsene Wenger and, as Steely said, the fans who travelled up north to see their team should be reimbursed immediately.

But if that�s your opinion then fair enough; I can�t change it.

G_Man · Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:42 pm

Well done Man United. Put on a great show. Arsenal were shocking. There passing was real bad. Man United still missed big players and still won in style. Brilliant

O Dogg · Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:36 pm

J-Axe wrote:

Steely Hill wrote:

so are you proud and pleased to be an Arsenal fan after that game?

did wenger and his players do you proud and represent the club in the manner you expect?

Of course not.

I logically respect the limitations of the team and the performance and I have more care for the condition of the squad for the upcoming games rather than having more care for progressing through the 5th Round of the FA Cup.

But I have already expressed countless times that I am disappointed by the result like any other Arsenal fan. I am not proud of how they got beat, nobody would be. As Wenger critically said, "it was a one off". We don't ever play with limitations at that level but I do feel that the sacrifice was necessary.

The fashion in how we lost and how we reacted to the mocking of Man Utd's enjoyment was disappointing.

But I am still proud of Arsenal this season. It has been a triumph so far and long may it continue. I am happy to make sacrifices for the big trophies and I guarantee you that every single man at Arsenal Football Club is happy with making those sacrifices too. Before and during the season every single player and fan wanted to win the Championship.

No it was not a one off - it also happened against your other fierce rivals a couple of weeks back.

Johaldo8 · Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:43 pm

Well said Doggy!

J-Axe · Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:21 pm

That was different. We didn't back out of the game or limit the players to save them, we played Spurs in a match and got hammered.

Again, you didn't understand what I said. Read the sentence after the bit you highlighted to see the point I was making. I was showing that Wenger clearly says it was a one off in terms of how we approached the game.

The Spurs game as I said was different. We went out to win and got truly stuffed. Wenger knows that and in his post-match report of the Man Utd game he discussed the heavy cup defeats, but still concluded that the Man Utd game was a "one off", so you work it out from that. Wink

conner99 · Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:17 pm

to be fair it is all part of the game ....Wenger is hardly going to say .."yeah they always seem to have the edge over us , they done us well and proper " a few days bfore a crucial Champions League match .

Johaldo8 · Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:56 pm

J-Axe wrote:

Again, you didn't understand what I said. I was showing that Wenger clearly says it was a one off in terms of how we approached the game.

The Spurs game as I said was different. We went out to win and got truly stuffed. Wenger knows that and in his post-match report of the Man Utd game he discussed the heavy cup defeats, but still concluded that the Man Utd game was a "one off", so you work it out from that. Wink

J-Axe, you don't understand what Wenger said. He clearly refers to the result being a one off, not his team's approach to the game:

Quote:

"I believe this result is a one-off. We will come back to Old Trafford in better shape and hopefully on a better pitch.

"The pitch is a disgrace. You have players worth �20-25million and you cannot play a pass without it bouncing."

He said: "It is difficult to find any positives from the performance.

"Even before the sending off we never looked like we could come back.

"It was difficult. We did not seem to have the physical resources that were needed. We were not up to our level."

Also, you're implying that Arsenal tried harder to win against Spurs than they did against United, but that completely contradicts Wenger's comments after the games. After the Spurs match, he sounded like he was almost glad they were out, and even stated that he wished he rested more players as the Carling Cup wasn't a priority. After this game however, he's used virtually every single excuse under the sun, which is a clear indicator that he did care. He's blamed the pitch, criticised the referee for harshly sending off Eboue (how?!), used injuries as an excuse and even slammed Nani for showboating.

I understand that you're basing your opinions of the two games in question on the performances, but with all due respect to you, I think I'd rather use Wenger's post match feelings as a clearer gauge to measure how hard his team tried (as well as my own personal opinion of the performances), and in doing that, I think it's crystal clear that Arsenal tried every bit as hard to win on Saturday as they did against us.

I would never question the will to win of a player or a team representing Arsene Wenger, such is the respect I have for the man as a professional football manager Smile

Johaldo8 · Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:59 pm

conner99 wrote:

to be fair it is all part of the game ....Wenger is hardly going to say .."yeah they always seem to have the edge over us , they done us well and proper " a few days bfore a crucial Champions League match .

Very true. You don't want to show a weakness, I understand your point. Having said that, I've seen Fergie admit many times that his team wasn't good enough. It's football. Sh!t happens. Sometimes results and performances like this can and do happen.

Flipper · Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:33 am

J-Axe wrote:

Well we are challenging for the big trophies and sacrificing the FA Cup to boost that challenge is a logical and intelligent move.

I am happy to make sacrifices for the big trophies and I guarantee you that every single man at Arsenal Football Club is happy with making those sacrifices too.

why would you think that fa cup isn't a big thropy to earn?.. although i consider it could be a little bit more favourable than the carling cup..

sacrificing too many things would get you nowhere.. i'm probably looking forward to reading something like.. [oh.. we're finally sacrificing the cl cup for the league cup too.. cutting down a number of other matches will be an advantage to concentrate in the league matches].. when you just lose to milan by chance then.. lol..

conner99 · Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:50 am

Johaldo8 wrote:

conner99 wrote:

to be fair it is all part of the game ....Wenger is hardly going to say .."yeah they always seem to have the edge over us , they done us well and proper " a few days bfore a crucial Champions League match .

Very true. You don't want to show a weakness, I understand your point. Having said that, I've seen Fergie admit many times that his team wasn't good enough. It's football. Sh!t happens. Sometimes results and performances like this can and do happen.

but not very often ....this was a one off result ....and the defeat by Spurs also was a one off .... Wink

Johaldo8 · Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:41 am

J-Axe · Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:24 pm

Flipper wrote:

sacrificing too many things would get you nowhere.. i'm probably looking forward to reading something like.. [oh.. we're finally sacrificing the cl cup for the league cup too.. cutting down a number of other matches will be an advantage to concentrate in the league matches].. when you just lose to milan by chance then.. lol..

We would sacrifice whatever it takes to help us win the title.

Before the season all opposition fans thought we'd no chance. Now with only a short number of games to go, we are favourites. If we need to make sacrifices then we will.

The effort, limitations and performance of the limited squad showed that.

Wenger talks sh"t to the media all the time. He lies to the media to cover things for the benefit of his team. He does his best to take the flak away from the team and tries to gain some positives out of it.

I know fine rightly that Wenger sent those players out with limited tactics & commands. Ben91 could see it, yet nobody has argued his points. It all makes logical sense and the evidence proves it.

Flipper · Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:32 pm

J-Axe wrote:

Flipper wrote:

sacrificing too many things would get you nowhere.. i'm probably looking forward to reading something like.. [oh.. we're finally sacrificing the cl cup for the league cup too.. cutting down a number of other matches will be an advantage to concentrate in the league matches].. when you just lose to milan by chance then.. lol..

We would sacrifice whatever it takes to help us win the title.

Before the season all opposition fans thought we'd no chance. Now with only a short number of games to go, we are favourites. If we need to make sacrifices then we will.

The effort, limitations and performance of the limited squad showed that.

Wenger talks sh"t to the media all the time. He lies to the media to cover things for the benefit of his team. He does his best to take the flak away from the team and tries to gain some positives out of it.

I know fine rightly that Wenger sent those players out with limited tactics & commands. Ben91 could see it, yet nobody has argued his points. It all makes logical sense and the evidence proves it.

i can't help wondering why you always mention it.. who thought you didn't have a chance.. -.-?
that's not quite a few matched to go.. several matches should sound better.. lol..

because ben might feel the same way considering what happened to Liverpool?.. sacrificing fa cup for cl cup too.. lol..

Johaldo8 · Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:58 pm

J-Axe wrote:

Wenger talks sh"t to the media all the time. He lies to the media to cover things for the benefit of his team. He does his best to take the flak away from the team and tries to gain some positives out of it.

So you admit that Wenger talks crap to the media; yet on the previous page you inaccurately try to quote him to back up your argument. Right... Confused

I know fine rightly that Wenger sent those players out with limited tactics & commands. Ben91 could see it, yet nobody has argued his points. It all makes logical sense and the evidence proves it.

You don't know, J-Axe, unless you personally know Wenger and the players and they've confided in you. You think you know. And what evidence are you referring to? United battered Arsenal, that's the only thing that is crystal clear here. To suggest that Arsenal didn't try is highly debatable - certainly not evidential. And if you want to bring your mate Ben91 into this again to help you back up this "evidence" then drag him out, but it's the same excuses anyway. He's a Liverpool fan bitter that his bad day seeing Barnsley dump them out of the Cup got a lot worse with an exhilarating Man Utd performance.

papa5murf · Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:48 am

Flipper wrote:

i can't help wondering why you always mention it.. who thought you didn't have a chance.. -.-?

When Henry signed with Barca and before the campaign started, EVERY critic said Arsenal would struggle. They even said they would be fighting for the final CL spot. But now 2/3rds of the way through the campaign, all the critics have been proved wrong.

Anyone that watched Arsenal last year, could tell that the team had potential. Whether it came this year or the next. Arsenal were dropping points last year (similar to what Liverpool are doing this year), and that's the reason they weren't up top fighting for the league title. On top of the fact that Henry and Van Persie were injured for most of the season. In games among the top 4, Arsenal had the best record/most points.

O Dogg · Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:26 am

papa5murf wrote:

Flipper wrote:

i can't help wondering why you always mention it.. who thought you didn't have a chance.. -.-?

When Henry signed with Barca and before the campaign started, EVERY critic said Arsenal would struggle. They even said they would be fighting for the final CL spot. But now 2/3rds of the way through the campaign, all the critics have been proved wrong.

Anyone that watched Arsenal last year, could tell that the team had potential. Whether it came this year or the next. Arsenal were dropping points last year (similar to what Liverpool are doing this year), and that's the reason they weren't up top fighting for the league title. On top of the fact that Henry and Van Persie were injured for most of the season. In games among the top 4, Arsenal had the best record/most points.

But that has nothing to do with this match?

As for Mr Axe saying they didnt want to win the game - here are some quotes from your players:

Cesc wrote:

�We will go nowhere playing like we did on Saturday.

�I don�t think I left my house at the weekend after that game. I just stayed in, watching the tape of the match and thinking about the mistakes we had made.

�We all have to realise we are not perfect and that there are still things we need to improve. Individually, everyone must be better.�

and also Mr Wenger

Wenger wrote:

�All the players were very quiet on the first day back in training. Who wouldn�t be hurt by a defeat like that?

�We want to be the best possible but had a bad day. When you have such a big disappointment, you can sometimes forget just how good you are.

�When you are at the top level, people always expect the worst of you. So now it is down to us to prove we have the quality to cope with this situation. But what is most important is our biggest targets are still in front of us.

�We are five points ahead in the Premier League and have a fantastic opportunity in the Champions League.

�This game against Milan is such a massive task we can forget about Saturday�s result.

�We will bounce back against Milan, don�t you worry about that.

Everything being said is pointing to the fact they are embarrassed by their performance, and quite right too. If you are telling me this team did not try to win that game, then you really are deluded son. Why don't you just swallow your pride instead of spouting off the same rubbish. Wenger has admitted it was an off day (2nd in as many months), and Cesc has admitted he hadn't left his house since the game as he was trying to learn some things from Anderson Wink

haha. But seriously, your boys turned up, got outplayed from the kickoff, and as time went on, let their heads drop and got thumped.

Everyone can see this apart from you....oh and your sidekick Ben.

Now take of those glasses son!

Johaldo8 · Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:34 pm

Well said Doggster!

Steely Hill · Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:13 pm

poor, poor axe man.

give me a hug, everything will be alright

Flipper · Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:37 pm

papa5murf wrote:

Flipper wrote:

i can't help wondering why you always mention it.. who thought you didn't have a chance.. -.-?

When Henry signed with Barca and before the campaign started, EVERY critic said Arsenal would struggle. They even said they would be fighting for the final CL spot. But now 2/3rds of the way through the campaign, all the critics have been proved wrong.

Anyone that watched Arsenal last year, could tell that the team had potential. Whether it came this year or the next. Arsenal were dropping points last year (similar to what Liverpool are doing this year), and that's the reason they weren't up top fighting for the league title. On top of the fact that Henry and Van Persie were injured for most of the season. In games among the top 4, Arsenal had the best record/most points.

well.. when the campaign started.. we did play draw or even lost in matches.. and we're like scoring very little goals.. while you're moving forward at the same time.. wasn't everyone thinking that we'd probably be left out nowhere too?..

having injured players won't be quite a good excuse for everything.. we're also having a number of injured ones till new year.. you may still own the best record so far.. but you just own the worst record too.. being trashed twice.. i don't mind losing a few times.. but i do mind being trashed.. and it's top 4 teams we're talking about.. lol..

this's seriously no fun anymore.. when you guys lose.. you just come up and say you didn't mean to win matches.. so if you guys fail to take care of milan later.. i'm already hoping to see the same old words like 'we can be now concentrating on the league'.. and what if.. talking about chances.. if we beat you in the league later.. are you saying another thing like.. 'we're concentrating on the next season'?..