Strass
The stats say it all - only 20% of coaches taking level 1 go on to take level 2.
Are you saying that we are producing better players than Ronaldo,Henri,Van Persie,Fabregas,Torres,Raul.I could go on.We have Joe Cole maybe Rooney and then who else.Why do you think clubs are recruiting more and more young players from abroad for academies. Why are premier league clubs recruiting more managers and coaches from abroad.Our system doesn,t work.
On this post we were talkng about coaching and teaching the game and the only contribution from one young coach was "most coaches don,t know how to stretch properly"What has that got to with developing outstanding players.Its not his fault he,s a product of the system.

Let me assure you that i most definitely do not run courses for the FA. Infact i just paid for my apprentice to do his level 1 and i siad that i would be most disappointed if he did not pass due to the ease of it and also due to the experience he had allready gained from working with me. Also i asked him what topic he got and he said Through the gate and i thought what the hell is that. I then saw the pack that he got and i thought thats a good idea all nicely packaged, but on further inspection i discovered the contents to be nothing more than glorified warm up drills. I agree that level 1 is probably too easy. Im not defending the FA at all but there has to be a starting point and as ive previously stated there are so many people that are very keen to run junior teams and such like but just really dont have a clue about where to start when it comes to coaching and i feel that while the actual coaching side of level 1 is easy it gives those people a platform from which to start.

Something else to ponder is that in level 3 the practices and terminology used is way above the comprehension of many a senior player and whereas the coach becomes very knowledgeable he will only ever use a fraction of that on the majority of teams he or she coaches and consequently to begin using such things at level 1 stage would just be pointless. I fully understand what you are saying and agree with quite a lot of it. Sometimes when im at a match some coaches and managers and players feel threatend by my presence. What they fail to realise is that probably 90% of what i say to them hasnt been learned on a coaching course its just pure and simple common sense that if applied correctly will produce results. Coaching badges do not produce good coaches there is so much more to it than that. What you gain as you progress along the path is knowledge. How you apply that knowledge to a given situation is what will ultimately define you as a coach. Please view the following link.
http://forum.football.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=34423&highlight=

Mr Bell we both know that statistics can be manipulted in a number of ways to ephasize points we try to make. only 20% of coaches went on to take their level 2. Considering i saw an article which said that 17,000 coaches had attended the level 1 course in the last 12 months that would mean that 3400 coaches progressed to doing their level 2 just from that number. Thats hardly a number to be sniffed at. Also lets not forget that there has been a national drive for coaches especially since we found out that we were getting the olympics. Lets add the fact that a lot of coaches took the level 1 because funds were made available for them to do so from various sources allowing them to achieve a governing body basic qualification and these funds do not stretch to level 2 in most cases. I could go on but i wont.

strass
Call me Colin.sorry if I was a bit too forceful I admire your passion and commitment.However you know if the candidates were excited and enthused by what they learnt on level1 then they would want to go onto the next level.The Fa should make the price more accessible becuase we want more coaches.
With your coaching schools i,m sure the kids when they enjoy the first sessions will want to come back and learn more its the same with coaches

I believe its a Quantity vs Quality argument; what do we want?

More Coaches or Better Coaches?

Hi colin

What youre saying is true. If you start to piece together what you have said and others around the forum have said then a clearer picture is emerging. Firstly that the level 1 is too easy for the more serious coach, but remember you do not have to start at the level 1. Secondly to progress to the A' licence is nigh on impossible if you are not involved or have been involved in the professional game and also joe average is priced well out of it.

With regards to my courses. Sure the kids come back as they enjoy it but that doesnt mean they want to be footballers. Many dont want to pursue it any further than playing in a structured enviroment with their pals even regardless of ability or potential.

I agree totally Strass.

Can you please reply to the private message I sent you .

Thanks

I have replied to your pm

west brom
Why does it have to be a quality versus quantity issue. With our population and love for the game we should be able to get a large amount of quality coaches.
As an analogy wouldn,t we ask serious questions if only 20 percent of students finishing their first year at University came back for the second year!!!!!

By the way Strass the 20% were the figures given by the FA!!

The figure of 17,000 was also provided by the FA on their own website.

Hi colin

I dont think your analogy with University Students is very fair either. Uni students generally enrol on courses (degree) that are usually 3-4 years in duration therefore to stand a chance of gaining that qualification they would have to complete that course.

If it was a requirement to do all your badges 1 after the other to be given coach status then you could compare. Also 40% of people now go to uni so maybe you should look at how many of those obtain a first class or 2-1 or 2-2 etc to enable more accurate comparisons if indeed that is possible.

Lets not forget that if someone chooses only to do their level 1 then that could be for a whole host of reasons such as thats all they want to get out of it, or they feel thats their level.

I have seen many people who could probably obtain badges upto level 3 but having it would not make them a better coach at all because they really wouldnt know how to apply what they know.

Are you saying that we are producing better players than Ronaldo,Henri,Van Persie,Fabregas,Torres,Raul.I could go on.We have Joe Cole maybe Rooney and then who else

With Raul nearing 30(I think) I can list several English players in the same league as your list. Lampard, Gerrard, Beckham, Neville, Ferdinand, Scholes, Owen, Terry. Just young uns? - Rooney, Richards, Lescott, Taylor......

perhaps not better, but certainly on a par.

ian
how is it Ian we can,t even beat Croatia then.Scholes maybe but Lampard ,Lescott ,Neville,Owen!! Come on!!

Ive told you before it doesnt matter how great your individuals are if the team cant function as one. The national teams of the players listed have hardly been burdend with success. Must admit colin im with you on questioning some of the names mentioned.

How come Holland couldn't qualify for World Cup 02 with van der Saar, Davids, Bergkamp in their squad.
How come Portugal have won sweet nothing despite sa/Jaou Pinto, Figo, Baia, Ronaldo over the years?
How come Spain always underachieve when they have Torres, Raul, Guti etc playing for them?

Croatia beat us fair and square. But one campaign doesn't make a player bad.

Now hte players mentioned. Maybe I'm being a little hasty with including Lescott right now. Would you care to explain how the other 3 aren't worthy of being considered top class? Also name me a right back or a striker who has been better over the past 10 years.

Holland 2002 crap and stubborn manager
Portugal mental problem
Spain mental block

I have no problem with Rooney being a world class player but
Richards Lescott and Taylor all look to have limitation.
The production line for skillfull players is very small in England but loads of countries have the same problem.

Shij
Are you saying Michael Owen is a skilful player!

Shlj - excuses, excuses. If England could take penalties we'd be celebrating several trophies of the past decade alone.....but let's not use excuses.

mental blocks!!!! poor show

Colin. Name a level of football that Michael Owen hasn't scored at. Over the past decade only van nistelrooy, Ronaldo and Henry come close.

He is only good when he has had a good team around him. He doing well at Newcastle

He will never be an Alan Shearer or his level. What he done at Blackburn and Southampton Owen couldnt/ a wont at Newcastle. "with Blackburn was won the league just incase you didnt know"

Ian
its obvious you and I look at different things.I,m looking for cleverness,high skill level,awareness,innovative players Best,Dalglish,Zola,Ronaldo,Berkamp,Gazza,Bernabia,Torres maybe some day a Rooney.
However you can,t develop innovative players if you don,t have innovative coaches that is why the FA courses are no good.
However your choice keep your blinkers on.I wouldn,t pay to watch Owen.I feel sorry for Owen if he,d been brought up in Holland or France he,d have been a hell of a player.He can,t even kick with both feet

Feel sorry for Owen with 40 international goals? With the most competitive goals of any England player - ever? Sure if he'd learned his trade in Holland he'd bottle it at the highest level, have a bad attitude and be a fair bit more cocky than he is now.
I doubt Maradona needed an 'innovative' coach to become the star he was, nor Gazza or Pele. Puskas(you've heard of him) regularly said he was glad for all the coaching he did not receive.

G - I'm not saying Owen will be a Shearer despite his superior England record. I'm saying he has been just as good a striker as any other in the world over the past 8-10 years.

Shearer played within them years. Owen has only did good at Liverpool and for his nation.

The great thing about football gentlemen and ladies is that its a sport that lends itself to several differences of oppinion without anyon necessarilly being wrong. We can use statistics to emphasise our points as best we can but ultimately it boils down to what we as individuals prefer. Case in point Michael Owen was on course to become englands alltime record goal scorer and would have been picked to start regardless under previous management but the new regime thinks different and long may it continue. Ive allways being a believer in pick men in form regardless of reputation. That way we encourage a hunger to play and a desire to retain our place rather than an expectation of to play on reputation. Im sure we have all watched england games or any game for that matter and wondered just where the desire to play and to win had gone.

Best was the icing on the cake in a very good united team, the same for Dalglish and Liverpool, Ronaldo in a united team. Zola was a skillfull individual in a Chelsea team full of quality individuals and as such had to be content with cup success. Bergkamp played in a very good Arsenal team. Gazza - obviously skillfull, but terry venables once said he didnt have a clue about tracking back and didnt have a clue about tackling - not a trait you would want from a central midfielder. Consequently he achieved his greatest sucess with Rangers. Torres is undoubtedly a goal scorer but could hardly be mentioned in the same category as the others. Rooney is obviously another skillful player that maybe 1 day could be included with the others, but only time will tell. Somebody you didnt mention colin is John Barnes who certainly entertained in at least as equal measure as the aforementioned. Maybe it was the lets give the ball to gascoign syndrone that stifled his contribution with England. Again John Barnes played in a very good Liverpool side.

I love watching the skilled and gifted perform but i am all too aware that they do not make the team and that in order for them to perform they need the right players around them. If you had a team of Ronaldos they certainly wouldnt win anything and neither would a team full of the others. Ironically a team full of Roy Keanes might.

PS. If Owen had been brought up in Holland he probably wouldnt have played international football and thats not because i dont like him.

Ian
one result doesn,t make us a bad team!! We lost to 10 man Brazil in the WC and Portugal whose players you slagged beat us in the Euro,s
We haven,t won ANYTHING since 66
What planet are you on