A lot has been made recently of the constant harassment, disrespect and disregard for the men in black and the laws they are put in place to enforce. This has been a problem for a number of years in my opinion and in reality the issue has always been brushed under the carpet.

Why I hear you ask....

The usual suspects are all, strangely enough, playing for the supposed cream of the Premier League. The Premier League is the governing body that regulates the rules etc with regards to the top flight. They are fully aware that those top clubs are the main reason for the Premier League becoming the gravy train it has become so why upset that by punishing the clubs for their ill discipline? The clubs have no fear or respect for the football governing bodies whether it be the Football Association or Premier League. Its quite ironic hearing managers such as Ferguson urging players to show respect towards officials, when only weeks earlier he is blasting the match official for his performance in the FA Cup tie versus Portsmouth. As usual that gets forgotten about and Ferguson is left to get on with his job while the latest person to come under attack surfaces. The ever likeable Ashley Cole. A real charmer of a man who recently had to apologise for his actions on the pitch which in turn led to every referees best friend John Terry publicly speaking out about giving referees respect, again the irony appeared lost on his tiny brain.

So, that’s Man United and Chelsea covered, onwards we march. Javier Mascherano was dismissed in quite bizarre fashion for constantly harassing the match day official while against Man United. Quite what he was hoping to achieve is anyone’s guess but alas the red card was shown and still Mascherano pleads his innocence while Benitez claims it was down to 'passion'. Quite frankly I was under the impression that stupidity and passion were quite different things, maybe I am wrong. Passion would entail geeing your team-mates up and in turn putting in an inspiring performance while doing everything in your power to ensure success for your desired cause whatever the cost. Dies that sound like Mascherano? not on your nelly. Last but by no means least we have Mr Wenger. the classless Frenchman is well known for his 'indiscretions'. He has the remarkable ability to spot referee errors with eagle like precision, however one of his players steps out of line and the view is somewhat misty. Wenger is never slow to pounce on a referee for anything he does not agree with and constantly embarrasses himself with his bleating and whingeing. just recently of course he decided Taylor should have been banned for life for breaking the leg of Eduardo. perhaps we should rip up the rule book of over 100 years to appease Wenger and his quest for a pure and clean game? He may have a point if his own side was not so littered with ill-discipline, violence, petulance, disrespect, spitting and the like.

Do we ever see such blatant disregard, disrespect or general bitchiness from Managers below the esteemed 'Big 4'? Very rarely is the answer you are looking for. so in short, these are the clubs that the 'Respect' initiative should be aimed at. The rule being bandied around about the captain being the only person able to speak to the referee is fine in principle, then you take a peek at the captains of the aforementioned clubs, Gary Neville, Steven Gerrard, William Gallas and John Terry. Hardly beacons of respect with regards to the 'powers that be' are they. This rule would surely eradicate any point in having a goalkeeper as the captain as that would clearly be unworkable. In practice this rule is going backwards. if we cant teach grown men that you need to respect the authority and the law makers then it echoes through to the rest of society.

This is not a one way street though. These officials need to earn that respect. the only way they can do that is to shape up or ship out. Incorrect and missed decisions have been more frequent than ever before. How can we encourage respect to a person who is so clearly incompetent? Hopefully the FA, the Premier League and the clubs themselves can find some common ground and the rest of us can read the back page of the newspaper without enduring a weekly rant from one of the 'big 4' managers.

Sadly that is a dream bigger than Aretha Franklin's waist line

I disagree. I personally would not put Liverpool players up there with the likes of the Arsenal, United and Chelsea players. Apart from the Mascherano incident i cant think of a time when Liverpool players have behaved that badly towards the men in black. If you can think of any please enlighten me. To say it is only players from these four teams that ever swear at a ref is ridiculous. Every player does it. Just as every manager blames the ref at one time or the other. It is just made more common knowledge when it is one of the big teams.

The time Carragher shouted at the ref accusing him of giving in to the Everton (I think) crowd at Goodison. That was the most disrespectful incident towards the ref I've witnessed since Di Canio. Be gone

What about Robbie keane who is constantly abusing and getting in the referees face?

El Hadge Diouf and Davis from Bolton are constantly moaning. Every player does it. It is hardly exclusive to the top 4.

I never said it was. I was just bringing up the Carragher incident as you seem to have forgotten it. I personally don't agree. I think it happens all over the league but due to the media's coverage of the 'big 4', they get exposed more

CFC has already done so.

i would add Gerrard vs Everton, blatantly intimidating the Ref, Rafa refusing to accept Mascherano is/was in the wrong and even when Gerrard slapped somebody in the face in the Feyenoord friendly Rafa blamed the Ref.

i didnt say it was "only" from those clubs did i. i simply said it is rare in comparison to the top four. i didnt even mention swearing either so i dont know why you have said that.

fair enough, i share your opinion as i have stated. I honestly can not remember that inncident. I am not doubting it happened i just cant recall it. Regarding Carragher though, he is constantly moaning, but not just at the ref, he shouts at his own players, other players, our coaching staff.

From the Match Thread:-

Forev:
Gerrard and Hibbert were running side by side, Hibbert was trying to force him off the ball and Gerrard dived. He intentionally put his own leg out infront of Hibbert and made them both fall to the ground.

Then the referee was going to book Hibbert and Gerrard made it very clear that it should be a red. the referee then put the card back in his pocket and changed it to a red one.


Sparkyjinx:
Carragher seemed to be moaning a lot, and gesturing at every decision annoyingly - does he always act like that, or just on this occaision for some reason?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFJ7dZLqsg8

Steve Bennett = referee who demands respect

one, two, three, four, five, six......

so you think it should be spread equally across the board?

think of the mass TV exposure these clubs get and the role they play with regards to kids etc. and yet they flout the rules with alarming regularity. then there is the press conferences and interviews where their bile conintues. its frankly unacceptable and it is certainly not on a par with the rest of the league.

they are the main culprits, some more than others of course. but time and time again there is disciplinary problems on and off the pitch that nobody, including the clubs themselves want to address.

well i agree that the proposed rule of only captains being allowed to speak to the ref is a bit unworkable ....what if they are 30 yards or so from the incident ...nonsense .

The issue of respect towards officials is indeed a two way street ...the inconsistent officiating is the main cause of all this and as long as that is still affecting our game i dont see an end to the problem .

Easily workable, just look at rugby. If theres been a decision made then play has stopped so the captain has time to walk over and have a chat to the referee for sure.

CFCBhoy - you have just posted two members of this forums opinions. That hardly holds much weight in any argument does it? The Ref regarding the Gerrard inncident was his own worse enemy. Just because Steven Gerrard said anything to him should not influence him. He is a weak individual if that is all it takes. Look at Bennet on the weekend. He didnt make many mistakes in the game. When Ronaldo went down a few times he was strong enough to go with his own decision and not give a free kick even though ronaldo was clearly asking for one. I disagree with what forev said anyways. He hardly put his own leg out with the intention of a penalty. You do that when trying to use your strength in a shoulder barge which is what happened. He tried to move his body over.
And your Sparkyjinx quote. What has that got to do with behavious to do with the ref. I am not defending him but i stated earlier he has a go at everyone including his own players and coaching staff. Mascherano became our first red card of the season. Surely this proves we are not that badly behaved on the pitch? I am not saying we are free of any wrong doings, no team is, but we are by no means one of the worst.




Yes i do think it should be spread equally Other teams outside the top 4 are just as important as influencing the young. Do they not have young fans also? Just because the top 4 get bigger press coverage does not mean others are exempt from the rule.
You talk of discipline on and off the pitch, well is Anton Ferdinand not a role model? He is a high profile player but what was he involved with recently? Did he not have a fight at a nightclub and has been in and out of court recently? Does he not have a duty to kids not to go and have fights.

Lee Bowyer had a fight on the pitch with Kieron Kyer. Yes that has nothnig to do with the ref but players also have a duty to respect each other as well. It goes on everywhere. The top 4 should not be singled out for this.

I was merely posting some of the discussion about the match to try and refresh your memory. I also posted the link so you could look through it and get some info of the game pal

I'm a nice guy like that

my bad. I thought you were trying to make a point. Memory refreshed. I apologise.

No need to apologise

Our Midfielder James Harper made a point in the papers the other week that he is known by Premiership Referees obviously throughout games as Number fifteen, yet i always get disgusted with Referees after games who talk about decisions using the first names of better known players. A good example of this would be the first game of the season at Bramall Lane between Sheffield United and Liverpool in which a controversial penalty was awarded for intent after Chris Morgan was penalised for intent on Steven Gerrard. After the game in the post match interview the referee, who I believe was Rob Styles, explained he decision by saying something along the lines of "The player" has slid in recklessly on "Steven". I think respect should be shown both ways in this manner. All players should be referred to by referees as their number and d not first names for certain players.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjadDaTO0fA&feature=related

Being totally honest, I think the worst offenders teamwise are Chelsea and Man Utd, closely followed by Arsenal. I don't think Liverpool are that much worse than other sides when contesting decisions, although with the amount of decisions that Gerrard's got for diving, they've got no reason to complain!

In terms of players showing disrespect, I reckon the worst offender is Rooney_79586.shtml'>Wayne Rooney. If Steve Bennett refereed every Man Utd game since Rooney was there, his red card tally would be comfortably in double figures. Actually, how many red cards has he had at Man Utd, anyone??? Has he actually received a red card in a Utd shirt?

I agree with Steely that there is a whole heap of hypocrisy going on from players and managers bleating on about respect, when they are in fact the biggest offenders. Fergie moaning that he genuinely feared for Ronaldo's safety after a couple of innocuous shoulder barges, even though in the same game Rooney dived in dangerously at Kranjcar, studs up??? Avram Grant saying that Ashley Cole is a good role model for kids simply because he apologised, even though this man humilated the referee, nearly broke Hutton's shin, and (non football related) was caught cheating on his wife??? FCUK OFF!!!!!

All the comments these managers make both before and after games is to get inside the referee's head. It's psychological warfare at its purest. Fergie's been doing it for years and Mourinho knew this when he arrived so he played the game back. It's got out of hand now.

Managers should be banned from discussing referees prior to matches as its clear they are trying to influence them. Only captains should speak to the referee, no other players should be involved.

The game needs clearing up. Sooner the better.

I don't think that United are that bad teamwise to be honest, maybe when Keane and all were here I'd have agreed but who really in the team now apart from Rooney berates the ref any more than other teams?

The only red card I can recall Rooney getting at Man Utd was when he got booked for a second time for clapping in the refs face, or something along them lines

Ferdinand. Van Der Sar. Neville. And Giggs always talks to the referees, he been doing that for years.

Becks: yes of course, Kim Nielsen sent him off against Villareal in the CL! What about in the Prem though?

Great post Lee - and it has been added to the Football Features on the main site.

I think that this is a problem right through the English game, and not only with the Big 4, however I think the big 4 are the worst culprits as you mentioned. We have seen it for years now where players surround the referee, showing complete lack of respect. United have been guilty of this as have Chelsea and Arsenal. Liverpool are not quite as bad in my opinion.

This needs to be stamped out though - and the best way to do this is by sending players off, just like the Liverpool game where Mascherano got his marching orders. If all Referees did this, and were consistant, then it would soon be stamped out.

As for changing the rules for only captains to approach the referee, this can work! It is being trialled now, and there is a lower league team (forgot who now) who have implemented this, and aparantly it has really helped with disciplinary problems at the club

That's because he's a w*nker and overrated.I winder what Crouch thought about Gerrards simulation,hypocrite.

This whole debate about respect of referees is a tough one. If been a ref on a much smaller scale but i learnt one thing and that's that respect is earned and not given.If you show you have an handle on the game ,that your word is final then players have to respect that.When ref's flip flop on decisions on the filed,make mistakes that even the opposing team admits to,show bias towards certain players and teams etc then they get what they deserve.I think it's a natural reaction for someone who knows he's right to fight for justice.Everybodies guilty of it ,but there does have to be a line drawn.Mascherano's incident was a case in the extreme because he was emotionally out of control.I think it was Gerrards job to get between Mascherano and the ref long before it got to that situation,but gerrard just like in the game was awol.I think he's basically scared of Mascherano ,but that's another subject.
I think it's quite obvious that the ref went into that game with a list of players who he should keep an eye on and Mascherano was one of them,and i would not be surprised if sir alex put something in his ear about it before the match.In that situation mascherano was obviously wrong but the ref made that worse with the frivolous early yellow.

I look at the Eduardo incident as a shining example.
You could see originally that that ref was not going to give a red card for that tackle.He saw the players leg and made his decision based on that.That is a coward or a man in shock,either way he visually flip flopped for the wrong reason.If he didn't originally think it was bad enough why change your mind because his leg was broken into 15 different parts?

Personally i think the refs have been guilty this season of costing a lot of teams games with bad decisions and when players don't see any punishment for those obvious blunders it creates a double standard that the league has to deal with.Rafa's job now is getting himself a new captain ,one that will show his face when he thinks his team is on the verge of going down a player.Funny how none of the the so called experts never mentioned this issue.