Laws of the game

Have a read of this if you feel like it.

Many players, coaches, fans etc don't have a clue.

Funny stuff on the law 11 ( the offside )

''The definitions of elements of involvement in active play are as follows:

Interfering with play means playing or touching the ball passed or touched by a team-mate

Interfering with an opponent means preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by
clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or movements or making a gesture or movement which, in the opinion of the referee, deceives or distracts an opponent ''

So basically in the same situation, you can have two interpretation of the law 11 by two referees. WTF
Inconsistensy all over the place then there...

The law 12 is also not applied properly
It is interesting to note that an attempt to kick or trip an opponent should be penalised.

The laws of the game are consistant, they are there to define what is legal and illegal and give a guide to sanctions taken by a referee.

Learning the laws of the game is just the start of becoming a referee, once you pass the refereeing test you will then become a member of an association, it is only then that you learn how to apply the laws that you already know to the games that you do.

most new referee's get a refereeing advisor who attends the matches that they do, and give advice about their performance, an association meeting is held once a month where Referee's are shown incidents and given guidence and have a question answer session.

to advance in the grades referees must sit more in depth exams, between these exams and consitantly high grades on their matches, some referee's will move up the grades.

when i was a player i believed i knew the laws of the game, looking back now i knew vitually nothing about the game.

Handing a person a copy of the laws of the game doesn't make them any where near being a referee, it is akin to handing someone a book on how a car works then telling then that they have passed their driving test.

The reason why so many referee's have such a hard time is players believe they know the laws of the game, sadly their laws are a mixed bag of half truths and media hyped nonesense, try listening to Chris Camara's commentary on a game. even i don't understand which planet he is on half the time.

The thing about the laws of the game is that there are certain hard and fast rules that leave you as to no doubt about their meaning, enforcement or interpretation. However, there some which are basically applied due to individual interpretation and as such different decisions will be made by different people on the same rule and its application in a game situation.

I feel sorry for the officials as their job is not made any easier with the amount of cheating. We watch the action and we quite clearly see who kicked the ball out of play yet both players involved will appeal for the decision. Sometimes its a natural reaction but mostly its an attempt to apply pressure on the official to give a decision in your favour even if it is the wrong 1.

We now expect refs to be mind readers and try to make a decision on weather the player meant to do it or not. What garbage! The fact is he did it so deal with it, but you have the pundits saying - hes not that sort of player im sure he didnt mean to hurt the guy. Im a firm believer in if someones does something bad enough to get sent off, then he should be whether its in the 1st minute or the last. Im not a ref although ive done the job and its hard enough without having to think about what sort of player is committing the foul.

Finally you then have players like crouch who does a stupid tackle, then proceeds to comment on how easily the foreign players go down to the ground. In truth players of all nationalities go to ground rather quickly in certain situations it is not a foreign thing by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe its just that crouch with his superior heading ability (NOT), his blinding pace (NOT), and absolute strength on the ball (NOT) is just too good (NOT).

Strass, you make some very good points, the latest debate is about two footed tackles. over the past month there has been at least half a dozen highlighted on television.

Yet when i listen to the commentators after the incident, i cringe knowing that his comment will burn into the minds of a couple of thousand amatuer players. the following Saturday, your local referee will watch an identical tackle then listen to the player explain that a top flight player didn't get sent off so why should he?

The truth of the matter is, some referee's are only just waking up to the fact that two footed challenges are dangerous. yet if we left it to the guys that referee our professional players to show the way then football would be in a horrendous state.

As soon as money becomes involved in the game so does politics. top flight referee's know that in some cases it is better to give a yellow card than have to deal with the incident on appeal. if amateur referee's gave the same lesser charge during an assessment, we would lose some serious marks. yet these guys get away with it because their assessors are also in the political arena.

The worst crime that top flight referees are guilty of in the modern game is not inforcing the dissent rule. i have watched numerous games where a player has given a referee a mouthful to be let off with a warning or ignored completely.

Thousands of Amateurs watch this week in week out then believe that if Rooney can do it, then why can't they? the moment we flash a card at them they go ballistic because they feel that they are being treated harshly, usually sighting a game in the process.

if anything the professional referee should be harsher than an amateur referee, it should be in the back of his mind that if he is lienant it will tickle down to the guys below him. the problem is none of the top flight referee's are interested. the days of refereeing on a public park are long gone for them. it is now about prawn sandwiches with the top players and managers, rather than doing their job to the letter of the law.

The game is changing, but not in the way we want, we all losing more and more referee's each year, and are failing to replace them. referee's spend more time writing than they have ever done, we are spending more time traveling to serious disciplinaries. and when we get there the manager and the player sit and lie their head off.

Fifa and the leagues involved pay lip service to fair play, yet behind closed doors, leagues freely admit that they won't hammer a manager for serious misconduct because they are scared of getting it overturned on appeal.

So they leave the manager to give referees abuse then give them a two match touchline ban when it should have been about an eight match touch line ban.

i sat one night writing a three page report on what a manager had said to me during and after a game, the guy should have been nailed to a cross for what he had said. because he sat on the league's committee he got a "warning".

This is what referee's have to put up with, we don't just have to deal with players, we have to deal with managers who can't lead by example, we have leagues that don't want to do the job they are there to do. then we have guys at the top setting a bad example for young kids coming through.

Football is changing, within five years we will probably see referee's offiating to the highest bidder, or we will see clubs and leagues going to the wall because of a lack of referees. one suggestion was to let managers referee, each half. trust me when i tell you that in most cases the game will decend into a farce.

there isn't one individual to blame, Fifa has to sit up and take it's share of the blame, as a governing body they should be making rules to enhance the game, not rules that are financially orientated.

Clubs should hammer players that don't follow the rules....especially professsional clubs, instead they back them to the hilt.

Professional referee's should do the job to the letter and set an example that amateurs can follow, and league's should hammer managers and players without fear of it being overturned on appeal.

But ultimately it is down to the individual player, some of these guys wouldn't take half the abuse in their job that they give referee's on a saturday, then after being reported they sit and lie their heads off.

being a referee used to be rewarding, now it is a whole load of stress to see an occassional decent game. each year i keep saying at the end of the season that i am not prepared to take another season of abuse, yet each year i go back knowing that if i quit then, that is another 50 matches a season without a referee. when i played i always had an official there to let me play, but now i just don't see the point in taking abuse any more.

it has got beyond a joke...i pick and choose my games now, and if i get a bad game, i hammer the individual involved. it's the least i can do because if i don't then i hate to think what i am passing on to the next referee.

i guess it depends if the laws of the game are there to be followed strictly or are just a guide for the officials to follow and they are allowed to use their own discretion in a match . The dissent thing is the same as a bad tackle in my opinion ....first offence a yellow card or whatever is deemed sufficient for the offense , why let a player get away with so much ..stop it at the first sign of abuse .

I tell you what pundit, you are spot on with everything that you have said. It really is a shame. A while back i was on a coaching course and was being asked what can be done to develop fair play in youth sport. I stood and and said the answer is simple. Everything the professionals do at the highest level is mimicked, copied, repeated through every level of the game. Therefore if the professional game got its house in order everyone else would follow suit.

I had a 10 year old lad run 20 yards and grab me to argue about a decision i made when i was coaching. I was more shocked than annoyed as this was a lad i had known for some years. The underlying factor wasnt the fact that he believed that the decision was necessarilly a bad 1, he was just copying exactly what he had seen his idols do on tv and at the local pro club. There was no malice involved in his actions, it was pure and simple natural response as a result of what he was now seeing on a regular basis.

The irony is that if you actually asked those who hand out most of the abuse to actually referee, the outcome is they are actually loathed to do it - surprise surprise.

the problem is the fa or referees association create their own problems really , with two footed tackles it should be one rule only ...yellow card instantly ...not depending on this or where the player was or if he gets injured or position of the ball and all that nonsense .

I think it should be red instantly and it would eradicate dangerous play like this.

yes exactly ....players would know then instantly that they would be sent off . Also we would not have the constant arguing about teams players like Fabregas getting stick about his challenge on so and so or Eboue getting away with this challenge yet other players get way with a yellow or no card at all .

And there lies a problem in itself with regards to the last few posts. 1 thought a yellow another an instant red. The sport on a whole relies on personal interpretation and that is never going to change. These range from value and worth of players to good goal great goal to poor tackle horrendous tackle. With regards the tackle - it would be great to standardise the protocol, however im sure this already exists. The problem as already stated it boils down to personal interpretation which then leads to human error. Its the nature of the beast im afraid.

Referees see things in real time and we have the benefit of multi - angle replays. and often they can be inconclusive so what chance have they got. Another shout for the use of technology, but where do we stop. As long as we have humans refereeing then mistakes will occur its part of the drama. Lets not forget that machines are prone to technical failures too. My own view is that incidents of a serious nature that are deemed not properly dealt with by the officials at the time should be dealt with by a panel afterwards so that justice can be done if somewhat belatedly.

As i understand it a system like this does exist but only comes into play if the officials took no action at the time. In other words if a yellow was handed out at the time then nothing can be done about it, however if no action was taken at the time then in theory the player could be facing a ban if dealt with afterwards - Now that sounds plain stupid.

well there you go .....The sport on a whole relies on personal interpretation and that is never going to change this thread is a bit pointless then .You mentioned the fact earlier about a ball going out of play and the player often knows it is not their throw ..yet he will appeal anyway . Would a yellow card for the player stop this going on ...probably but we know it is never going to happen so why are we even moaning about it .

So if personal interpretation is never going to be stopped then why are we discussing about instant red or yellow cards for two footed tackles ....if the referees are still being advised to use personal interpretation .

I dont think refs are being advised to use personal interpretation. They have very definite guidelines. But as with a lot of things of in life you just cant keep personal interpretation out of it. You dont need to look much further than the Holy Bible itself to see evidence of that and it is said that religion is 1 of the biggest causes of war. I think i will settle for discussing the rights and wrongs of football on this forum. Its the safer option.

As a direct answer to your question - sometimes its useful to let off a bit of steam and possibly pick up information that we didnt know along the way.

Without personal interpretation then their would be no rules on a football pitch as no two tackles are alike, refereeing is a judgement call, referee's could spend hundreds of hours pouring over video evidence and still never see 1% of the infrindgments that they will have to deal with in their career.

Conner99. i disagree with you about the ball going out of play and players appealing. to stop it in the professional game is simple.

Bring in a seperate card for cheating, like appealing wrong decisions, diving, and asking referee's to issue cards. for each card a team gets, they are issued with a point, add all these points together at the end of the season and create a table.

The team that cheats the least will lose nothing, the team that cheats the most will lose 20 points (if the league has 20 teams) Suddenly you would see managers hammering players for dissent, cheating etc.

Let's face it if a fair play table was going to cost Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea the title and europian qualification, then the directors would happily sack a manager that doesn't stamp it out.

Players would be fined stupid and dropped for a few games, trust me within a couple of seasons you would see players happily allowing the referee to make decisions without dissent.

As a fan, how would you feel if you dropped from title winner to eight because you knew that one of your players couldn't keep his mouth shut, you would hound him from the club.

Ultimately the biggest problem with the game right now is cheating is like a cancer in the game, it makes referee's question their decisions and puts additional pressure on officials. the less pressure the offical has to deal with the more likely he is to get it right.

I gotta say that i am not too sure about creating a "cheating league" and deducting points etc.

Football seems to have its problems and issues, but ultimately, it is football... i think that getting too technical and creating back0leagues and cheating tables would take away from the sport.

With regards to players appealing for throw-ins, corners etc...what can i say?...i used to do that in my sunday team. Everyone does, its part of the passion of the game. Just think, we wouldnt have any debates or rants without things like that, and bad decisions, etc...i think WE LOVE IT in secret.

I understand your point Spurs fan....

But there is a bigger picture to look at here. The game is losing more referee's than they can replace because players feel they have the right to tell referee's what they think, if they get cautioned for doing so then a small minority lose the plot then start to either threaten the referee or at worst, try and lash out. year on year the number of referee assaults are rising because it is accepted that referees are paid to take abuse.

Fifa and most of the leagues come out with small initiatives that are supposed to help referee's but to players, they feel that Fifa and the leagues are only paying lip service to a small problem, so most players choose to ignore these initiatives.

Currently there is not enough referee's to fill all the domestic amateur fixtures on a saturday, why? because referee's are sick of taking abuse and having to spend hours at meetings giving up their own free time because players feel they have the right to abuse them.

So what do you propose we do about it? we could sweep it under the carpet and hope that it get's better, they shortened the referee's training course to allow new blood to come through faster, only problem is, now we have referee's that are skimming over the rules without fully understanding them. when they are finally let loose on adult amateur it is obvious that they don't have the proper training to carry out the job effectively.

You say that you used to shout for throw in's when you were in the sunday league, and it is part and parcel of the game. no one is asking players to not to have an opinion in the pub after the game, the problem lies that when players have an opinion or rant on the park, then some can't accept the fact that they will receive a caution for their rant. if they swear at a referee they will be sent off, and more often or not then that is where the problems start.

As referee's we accept that now and again some players will put their hand up and shout for throw in's especially if it is a debateable one, but some sunday leagues are notorious for blatantly trying to con referee's and when the referee makes the right call they stand there and argue with the referee.

should players really cheat to win matches? Ask yourself this question? your team makes it to the final of a cup, your winning 2-1 and in the 89th minute the opposition managed to handle the ball into your net without the referee seeing the handball. you go into extra time and lose the game, would you not be gutted that you should have won the game fair and square and because the other team cheated you lost?

I use this example because it happened to me, and even though i suspected by the leading teams reaction that the striker had handled the ball, i didn't see it or even suspect that it happened until the opposition protested. when the game was finished i asked the player involved and explained that the league had already awarded the cup. The player said "you know mate, i was actually suprised that you didn't see it" i made the point that they had won through cheating and didn't it leave a sour taste in his mouth.

"listen, a win is a win, everybody cheats so why shouldn't we" was his response.

I felt sorry for the losing team, but i had no hope of seeing the handball because the goal was scored from a quick counter attack. So how far do we allow cheating? i have been five yards away when a player went down in the box, the defender was no where near him, so when i booked the player for diving, he blew his stack and started calling me all sorts, obviously i showed him a red card for foul and abusive language.

next thing i knew he was shouting what he was going to do to me at the end of the game.

Do you honestly think this is part of the game and that we should accept it because we all secretly love it...trust me when someone threatens your saftey there is no love there.

Any rule that Fifa brings in should work from the top down, it's obvious that the simulation rule isn't working because players are happy to take the occassional card because they also get the occassional penalty too. But if players knew that by diving in the long run it could cost them the title, do you honestly think they would go down as easily?

Fifa have asked managers to deal with cheating, Managers aren't prepared to fine players for diving because they know it could be the difference of 1 point of three. so we need a system that is going to make managers desperate to stamp it out....fines don't work for clubs like Man Utd. they can afford anything the league throws at them.

The only thing any manager would hate to see is losing points for cheating...if they lost points for cheating then they would be more inclined to deal with diving players and players who surround referee's to protest...No one is asking the fans to keep quiet or even debate the decisions in the stands, but do we really need to destroy the game, because players want the right to have an opinion?

I fully respect everything you wrote there pundit although you did like to take some of the things i made and put them into a different context...

The way you put everything was very logical and seems rational. However, i believe that the best way to handle this would be for the FA, Fifa, whoever to stop hiding behind 'bureaucracy'. I think if cases occur on an individual basis (and i throw out ashley cole as a handy example) then the FA should be able to charge the player and say "hey, that's not right" and by the same token, to the teammates that were also there with their fingers in the face of the referee. Instead of this, the FA couldnt because he had been booked for it already or some nonsense. If something is wrong, then it should be pointed out as being wrong.

In theory, your cheating tables seem the most logical. I just see other things following on, such as sin-bins and different punishments, etc which would just change the game completely.

But i dont disagree, something needs to be done...

I agree that there should be different options to deal with cheating and dissent, although the biggest problem is, what might work in front of the camera's, might not work in amateur leagues where there is no camera.

unfortunately the rules have to be consistant from the top to the bottom, can we really justify bringing in one rule for one team and another for another, is that not why guys post about referee's supporting certain teams...

Mascherano decided to go over and give the referee a piece of his mind, he said ( i only went over to ask a question) i taped the game on sky+, so watched it again after he was sent off, he seemed to say more than just ask a question before he was sent off.

~So we come to the point, if professional players can't be honest and hold their hands up when they are wrong, what message are they sending to the guys that watch them then head out onto a park on a sunday.

Premiership managers are being sent to the stands constantly...we watch it, week in week out and know what they are saying, what message are they sending to amateur managers?

it's obvious that fines and touchline bans don't work, because it is always the same managers that seem to be re offending, I watched Rooney_79586.shtml'>Wayne Rooney two seasons ago tell a ref (think it was bennett) to F**k off and bennett didn't even caution him. Yes Bennett should answer for that, but Rooney must realise that kids are watching him doing it and so they think that they can do it.

i don't want sin bins, it adds more work to amateur referee's who don't have officials to help out.

i have discussed this issue with managers and they use the same expression "the punishment should fit the crime" Yes, i agree it should, but take for example. last season in my league...

First game of the season a player told me to f**k off, he got a three match ban, he was back for two games and he done almost the same thing to another ref, he got another three match ban... i got him the first game back and he called me a stupid w**ker because he didn't agree with the decision. he got another three match ban.

And each time the manager appealed the red cards and claimed that the player didn't tell the ref's to f**k off. the current system doesn't work because players and managers don't fear the penalties imposed by the leagues. so if managers and players don't fear the penalties then we should look at penalties that they do fear....in my view the only penalty that any manager would fear is to lose a title because of cheating or behaviour of players.

Fines don't work, i know of one amateur manager that happily admitted it was "money well spent" then laughed. Touchline bans don't work because they happily defy them in the lower leagues, the manager must not be near the pitch during the match..so they stand ten metres back and shout.

They get banned from holding office in a club, so what do they do? the become unofficial coaches and still manage the team with a puppet manager attending league meetings.

So what would you suggest? it has to be something that works from the top down...

(oh and just to let you know...a league can't ban a manager from a public park because it is a public park...and they all know it)

I don't want to spoil the game, but i don't want to see leagues going to the wall because they can't get referee's, the kids leagues are the first to suffer because they pay the lowest, are you happy to lose potential international kids because they can't get referee's. they tried to get managers to referee some games Both managers taking a half each, by the first league meeting all the managers were complaining about the opposition manager cheating by not awarding a penalty when he should have and awarding his team a penalty when it was never a penalty...do we want to go down that line....

Like it or not, to keep the game intact, we have to do something before the proverbial horse has bolted..

Ok, lets say for a moment you had convinced me

how exactly would it work? i mean, what would be the parameters?