Are you calling Arsenal a smaller team?

So you are serious, you dont think Man U winning the Champions League and Premiership would outdo Wengers season

If 'overachievement' is to be used as an excuse then Moyes must be in with a shout.

Do people still think Arsenal's squad is the young/inexperienced squad people paint it out to be? The only reason why people think Arsenal have overachieved is because Henry left. It was not as if they were a pathetic team before this as they have finished on par with Liverpool.

Wenger has bought in the January transfer window before. I believe Adebayor and Diaby were bought in the January transfer window? For a manager of his experience, having been in the Premiership for such a long time, to stick to the belief that his squad will last the distance without injuries and suspensions is his own fault and downfall. It is incredibly myopic and I fear for his eyesight (whoops) ...

Fergie took a side who'd won the title and added 3 players to the squad at around £17-£18million each. Unless he wins the Champions League, and probably the double, he can't really be Manager of the Year in my opinion.

If he merely won the Premier League he wouldn't have excelled, he'd of achieved the same as last year despite making the biggest improvements, so it stands to reason.

Thats bull!

Arsenal has totally under achieved this season! I would say that Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal would be expected to challenge for the same things in past and the current season. Wenger having failed to win a trophy means he has failed and shouldn't even be considered. Those who are actually suggesting otherwise are indeed clueless.......

And those who also keep harping on the excuse that the Arsenal team is too young and inexperienced are ridiculous. Its the managers responsibility to put a team together thus wenger is to blame if this excuse is to be true. Btw, he was quoted to say that he has confidence in 'this team' and they could possibly win the league as well as the CL earlier on. Also, its not if they don't have money to spend!!!!

My candidates:

Fergie - if he wins the league and qualify for the CL final (confirmed if he wins both)!
Grant - for the same reasons above.
Rednapp - if he wins the FA Cup (even better chance if they over achieved and finish 5th)

Avram Grant is a no no in my opinion, whats so good about joining a team, with already more quality in depth than every other team in the premier league possibly the world, and loosing to Us in the Carling Cup final loosing to Barnsley in the Fa Cup and have all the players not respect you.

The results havent been bad but thats not down to Avram Grant its down to the players desire to win things. Other teams like Man Utd have players who want to win like Chelseas but they also have a manager who tries to inspire them what does Grant do, nothing.

Also the players doing well are Mourinho signings, Avram Grants signings either havent played or when they do havent been good.

Am not a fan of Grant myself. But if he manages to win the league or even do the big double then I believe we must give credit where its due. You cannot simply brush aside the manager's contributions if Chelsea wins either or both trophies.

Yes its embarrassing to lose the Carling Cup final and get dumped out of the FA Cup by Barnsley. But if Grant can win the league or CL, he would have more than compensated for it. Am sure the fans wouldn't complain getting their hands on the league title or winning the CL in exchange for what are perceived to be lesser trophies.

What a load of jive.

''Arsenal has totally under achieved this season! I would say that Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal would be expected to challenge for the same things in past and the current season''


So, Arsenal have under achieved have they. Wasn't there first team put together for less than £50m? That's less than Man City's, and half the other teams in the premiership. Sunderland have spent more than that since they got promoted less than a year ago. Still think they have underachieved?

Over the last 2 seasons, if you are to list the big spenders, who do you think are top? If you include the Tevez deal (and i'm going on what Man U fans told us on this forum regarding that deal) then Man U top that list. If not, then Tottenham are the big spenders. Both spending more than double the entire value of the Arsenal team. A Tottenham team who were tipped by many to finish 4th this season - ahead of Arsenal who were expected to achieve very little.

If you want me to post the list, i will do so. Where do you think Arsenal are?

Not even in the top 10!

Teams like Fulham and Sunderland are ahead of them.


''Also, its not if they don't have money to spend!!!!''

Actually, they didn't have much to spend because of the stadium. Only in January did they have a lot of money to available for transfers, but like many managers, Wenger doesn't like buying in January. You don't get good value for money, and rarely do good players leave in January. Most of his targets probably weren't available.


''Wenger having failed to win a trophy means he has failed and shouldn't even be considered''

So it's all about trophies is it. You can't be the best manager of the season without winning one, eh?

How about Paul Ince last season? Or Redknapp when he saved Portsmouth from almost certain relegation? What about Paul Jewell's and Steve Copell's first season in the premiership?

Arsenal's first eleven (Almunia, Sagna, Toure, Gallas, Clichy, Hleb, Flamini, Fabregas, Rosicky, van Persie, Adebayor) cost £54.25million, or so i've calculated.

Ok ,Now answer this question,and answer it honestly. Did you expect Arsenal to be contenders at the start of the season? If yes on what basis? They just lost Henry ,they were getting kicked off the pitch the previous season and they didn't buy any major players.

I'll go along with them three too.

Yes, they were one of the realistic contenders! Being Arsenal, they are always expected to be. Like I said, wenger was quoted as saying that 'this team' was capable of winning the title as well as going for the CL. So the excuse of a weakened team doesn't hold water! The Arsenal team was not assembled in one season, its the manager's responsibility for a top team to constantly maintain a squad capable of meeting the club's objectives. I can accept the 'one off' season whether the team goes through a settling down or transformation phase. But 3 seasons without a trophy.... Not even making a final of any competition this season. And you realistically think he should be nominated for an award!???

Selling Henry???? Wenger made the decision to sell him, so it back fired.... Whos fault is it then????

And you trying to use the 'kick off the pitch' excuse as well makes me wanna laugh! So are you saying they are a team of wusses??? Get real, if you can't take the rough and tumble of the premiership then too bad. But don't use that to cover any shortcoming of the players and manager!

Now answer honestly..... Do you actually think wenger deserves the award (above those managers I put forward) for winning nothing and finishing 3rd in the league??? If you continue to insist so, then this is the last post in response to you about this topic.

So, Arsenal have under achieved have they. Wasn't there first team put together for less than £50m? That's less than Man City's, and half the other teams in the premiership. Sunderland have spent more than that since they got promoted less than a year ago. Still think they have underachieved?
So how much did the squad cost when they won the last title??? Its his fault not being able to maintain a squad capable of competing for the title. Its a fact, Arsenal had the funds (for the last few seasons)and wenger chose not to fully utilize it and foolheartedly believe that the squad he already have is strong enough. You bringing the likes of Man City and Sunderland into the equation is comparing apples with oranges!!! GET REAL!


How about Paul Ince last season? Or Redknapp when he saved Portsmouth from almost certain relegation? What about Paul Jewell's and Steve Copell's first season in the premiership?[/quote]

Did they win the award? Yes, they all have done a good job. But its always very subjective comparing them. Any manager who have exceeded their initial club objective would have done well. Its difficult to quantify and qualify if there are no tangible rewards (like titles and trophies). Thats why the manager who wins the league usually gets it! I would say Spurs and Everton have done very well over the last two seasons by finishing 5th, but did their manager win the award?? NO! Can you say the manager that save a club from relegation have done better than the managers of Spurs and Everton in those two seasons?

So it's all about trophies is it. You can't be the best manager of the season without winning one, eh?

So what is the basis of your nomination of wenger???

For finishing 3rd??? (they were title contenders and never expected to finish outside of the top 4 positions anyways)

For winning nothing this season??? Not even making a Final of any competition???

I rest my case...................................

no you dont officially .....but the truth is winning the Premier League or Champions League will almost guarantee you that award ..i think it would take an exceptional performance by a team for a manager to win the award without having won a trophy ...like Sticky T said ....Derby to come 3rd or 4th after getting promoted to the Premier League .

Since the Premiership began only once has the award not gone to the manager who won the Premiership title ...that was George Burley who guided Ipswich Town to Europe in 2001 their first season back in the top flight .

So congratulations to Sir Alex Ferguson or Avram Grant ...

So wheres the 'half the forum' that agrees with Sticky T that Wenger should get it even if SAF wins the CL and PL???

Jono, i didn't say that.






That's pathetic, don't you agree? It's a typical glory glossed top 4 media hype way of looking at it. I'm surprised it isn't The Sun who pick the winner...

Typical big gun bias. The odds are unfairly (as so often is the case) stacked against the smaller teams and managers.

Success should be measured in more ways than just the trophy sitting in the cabinet. It should be measured in proportion to expectations, money, quality etc. It should go to the team (manager) who vastly overachieve, or in the face of great adversity exceed expectations.

Tell me, what's more impressive - a team predicted to win the league with an estimated 90 points, and failing to disappoint by winning it, but with slightly fewer points - 85 overall. Or, predicted to finish 20th with around 25 points, but instead getting significantly more than double that and finishing in the UEFA cup, with 65 points. What is the greater achievement? Which team overachieved more?

Why should that manager not win the award, just because he doesn't have a trophy to show for his great achievement?

I don't believe that's true. As i said before, Arsenal had to spend a lot of money on their stadium, and as a result of that, initially suffered financially.

As for Henry - the fact that you still think selling him was a mistake says it all really. Selling him clearly wasn't a mistake, that much has been proven conclusively.

They moved through choice. The club knows what there doing and felt they had enough money to spend to buy players who would win them the league. They didnt, thats just the way football goes.

Arsenal dont miss Henry? What have they achieved since he has left them?

You were the one that used 'selling Henry' as an excuse. I was merely stating that if it was indeed true, then the blame still falls back on wenger's lap! On a personal note, YES I think selling Henry was a mistake.
But Wenger didn't see it that way......

How and what was proven conclusively???? That Arsenal can't win anything without Henry? If thats what you mean then that result is indeed conclusive at this point of time. Or until Arsenal win something......

I totally agree with you on this point. But like I said earllier, its very difficult to measure and subjective when there are no tangible results like titles or trophies to show for it. Who can decide on what the club's real expectation should be. The club, fans, punters or critics? Don't think that s a common consensus can ever be reached. Thats why I say its always difficult to qualify and quantify based on those benchmarks you highlighted.

I being a fan of Everton strongly agrees with what you suggested, that its not all about winning trpohies. But I can understand though agrieved with the current situation on how the award is decided (usually to the league or CL winner).

I would have thought that Moyes was odds-on to bag the award when we came in 4th beating pool to it a few seasons back. We totally and way overachieved in that season, but sadly, it was not to be.........

Guys guys take it easy, it's obvious that Avramt Grant is going to win the manager of the season win he wins the double.