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  • specnur
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J-Axe wrote:
I think the Flamini exit has been looked into too much. He had one great season and expected more from his contract. He was almost out the door last summer and supposedly his love for the Club made him stay - it was worse last season as Gilberto had him benched and guys like Diaby and Denílson were getting just the same amount of chances.

I just think he's stayed this season to prove to Wenger that he should have been given a bigger chance and shouldn't have been benched by the likes of Gilberto. It's a pity because of the personal problems of Flamini we have lost a great player - but if there's that history and personal disagreements, and perhaps a lot of self-delusion on Flamini's part then you can't expect any player to stay completely loyal. Also it's not as if Milan are a step down in anyway.

I agree that Flamini was superb for us and we all loved him for his performances and efforts, so in that case it's a big blow to lose him. But we also lost great players, better players than Flamini, to other Clubs (including rival Clubs) and coped without them as I pointed out in my earlier post.

It's more worrying [as I said earlier] that footballers like Flamini expect massive wages based on one great season. So many players can put in a great season and flop the next - there's no reason for Arsenal to change the policies and terms of agreement because Flamini says so. So many players at that level do boss their Clubs around and gain ridiculous amounts. I'm glad that Arsenal aren't doing that. If we lose a player to a 'lack of wage' or a less than good enough contract, then we don't need them - we need players who will fight for the Club on a fair & somewhat realistic wage.

Ashley Cole is the best example of something like this. We won nothing and suddenly our star, arguably, World-class International homegrown youth product leaves the Club to join a rival Club in the same City because he had personal disagreements with Arsenal in terms of money. There was a bad taste in Cole's mouth always because he felt left out of the spotlight when guys like Henry, Pirčs and Vieira were getting all the attention and more money. It's similar with Flamini who had a bad taste in his gob after being benched time & time again last season and/or played out of position and even at times benched behind a relative newbie with less experience!

I can understand that because when it was happening I was cursing at Wenger for misusing Flamini.

But overall it's no big worry. If it was somebody of the calibre of Cesc, van Persie or Touré then I'd start getting worried unless there was perfectly good reason.



The main problem with these players leaving is the fact that Arsenal made great improvements this season ,more than anyone thought they would.The chemistry in the team developed and positions and information was gained by Wenger. Now Flamini's left Arsenal will have to rebuild that chemistry with a player who didn't play as much last season in his position.It's like every 1 step further Arsenal progress they take two steps back.It's quite obvious that Flamini played out of his skin this season because he would be in the shop window at the end of it.

 
  • BMJ
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Flamini and Hlebs loss shouldn't worry Arsenal fans aslong as they are replaced by "ready to play" footballers that don't need to be babysitted through a season or two.

Wenger imo, needs to splash out some cash on one of the replacements that comes in.

Wenger also needs to tinker with the system and style Arsenal plays. I just think they lack variety and an ability to play ugly to grind out a result. They peg back the opposition and switch from left to right, right to left and look for that killer 1 2 and it becomes predictable in way even if it is great football. An Arsenal midfielder gets the ball just outside the box with room to shot and he passes it instead of having a shot on goal. Wenger has to instill into his players an ability of going direct if that opportunity arises.

The blowtorch will be on Wenger next season. I don't care how much the board and fans love him, deep down they expect a trophy every few years or so. I remember when United went trophyless for a few seasons and suddenly there was talk of Fergie's retirement and so on.

Last season was the "improvement" year for Arsenal. This season was where they were quite capable of challenging for the title and they were on their way to doing so. They bottled it, and there's no way ya can sugar coat that. Arsenal need to introduce some experience and directness into they squad and psyche.

 
  • specnur
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BMJ wrote:
Flamini and Hlebs loss shouldn't worry Arsenal fans aslong as they are replaced by "ready to play" footballers that don't need to be babysitted through a season or two.

Wenger imo, needs to splash out some cash on one of the replacements that comes in.

Wenger also needs to tinker with the system and style Arsenal plays. I just think they lack variety and an ability to play ugly to grind out a result. They peg back the opposition and switch from left to right, right to left and look for that killer 1 2 and it becomes predictable in way even if it is great football. An Arsenal midfielder gets the ball just outside the box with room to shot and he passes it instead of having a shot on goal. Wenger has to instill into his players an ability of going direct if that opportunity arises.

The blowtorch will be on Wenger next season. I don't care how much the board and fans love him, deep down they expect a trophy every few years or so. I remember when United went trophyless for a few seasons and suddenly there was talk of Fergie's retirement and so on.

Last season was the "improvement" year for Arsenal. This season was where they were quite capable of challenging for the title and they were on their way to doing so. They bottled it, and there's no way ya can sugar coat that. Arsenal need to introduce some experience and directness into they squad and psyche.


I disagree.

There isn't one player in the world that i have seen that can replace Hleb and the things he can do.
Very few player can just fit into Arsenals style of play,it would take knowing the movement of his teammates and the intricacies of their ability.

"Tinker with Arsenals style"
I don't think so.There is nothing wrong with their style in fact it is the most effective way of breaking any teams in the world.Case in point 1.Undefeated season,2)Champ league final with 10 men.3)2-0 down with 10 men v Bolton won the game 2-3. etc.

What they need is consistency at the back nowhere else.If the back 4 are sorted everything else will fall into place with the team having more confidence going forward.No team in the world control and pass the ball as well as Arsenal at such a high percentage each game.There are teams who can link plays together just as well i.e. Barca,real Madrid and Man U ,but none of thsoe teams can do so as consistently as Arsenal each game.It's the hardest style to defend against as it is impossible to know where the ball is going next.The precision of passing and accuracy and speed of pass,the ability to control the ball under extreme pressure is what all those top teams admire and try to emulate.If it were easy everyone would be doing it.

This season was supposed to be the "improvement" year for Arsenal as well as last year.NO ONE gave them a shot in hell this season and they shocked everyone by leading the table at all ,Wenger needs a lot of credit for that.Next season should be the season when they are expected to win stuff,but the way they are on the verge of loosing these key players that could a fantasy also.
Arsenal's whole season could have been different if Hleb would have gotten that penalty ,that the whole world said should have been awarded.

 
  • BMJ
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specnur wrote:


I disagree.

There isn't one player in the world that i have seen that can replace Hleb and the things he can do.
Very few player can just fit into Arsenals style of play,it would take knowing the movement of his teammates and the intricacies of their ability.

The way you describe Hleb is as if he has been a world class player for the last 3-4 years. Cant agree with you there. Also there are a number of players that could fit into the Arsenal system. But guess what, you gotta spend money to get em.

"Tinker with Arsenals style"
I don't think so.There is nothing wrong with their style in fact it is the most effective way of breaking any teams in the world.Case in point 1.Undefeated season,2)Champ league final with 10 men.3)2-0 down with 10 men v Bolton won the game 2-3. etc.


What about Arsenal's loss to Middlesborough and 4 consecutive draws when they were leading the league. Where was Arsenal's super human breaking down power there? A team like Arsenal shouldn't have runs like these...


What they need is consistency at the back nowhere else.If the back 4 are sorted everything else will fall into place with the team having more confidence going forward.No team in the world control and pass the ball as well as Arsenal at such a high percentage each game.There are teams who can link plays together just as well i.e. Barca,real Madrid and Man U ,but none of thsoe teams can do so as consistently as Arsenal each game.It's the hardest style to defend against as it is impossible to know where the ball is going next.The precision of passing and accuracy and speed of pass,the ability to control the ball under extreme pressure is what all those top teams admire and try to emulate.If it were easy everyone would be doing it.

The difference between Arsenal and Manchester United was that Man U were able to change their style according to the opposition. They knew when to play passing football and they knew when it was right and/or neccessary to go the direct route. Arsenal played the same all the time. They were over patient in games against inferior opposition and lacked urgency in games they thought were certain 3 points for em. That's why they need a few players that will have the instinct to adapt to the reality of the ingame situation and be able to provide a plan b option if the game isn't going their way. Arsenal's play is attractive and they are not far off, dont get me wrong, but they just need a killer instinct that the current squad lacks imo.

This season was supposed to be the "improvement" year for Arsenal as well as last year.NO ONE gave them a shot in hell this season and they shocked everyone by leading the table at all ,Wenger needs a lot of credit for that.Next season should be the season when they are expected to win stuff,but the way they are on the verge of loosing these key players that could a fantasy also.
Arsenal's whole season could have been different if Hleb would have gotten that penalty ,that the whole world said should have been awarded.

Who cares about pre-season predictions. Arsenal were 6 points or so in front. Im positive they were extremely confident in the dressing room and all the Arsenal supporters here were certainly confident of league crown. I was certainly sweating when they were in front, they right in the mix. Chelsea were discounted at that stage..lol. Arsenal are in a fantasy world atm. It's always "next year". It always "Young guns are not ready yet". Another season like this one will see Wenger out imo. It might be all back slaps and "good game out there" beers atm, but everyone is expendable and these things can happen very quickly.



 
  • Roonanialdo
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papa5murf wrote:

However, what I am disappointed at is the lack of loyalty to a club. This goes not only to certain players at Arsenal, but also towards players of other clubs as well.


Maybe this is due to the increase in the number of foreign players in our league. I look at the likes of Giggs, Scholes and Neville at Manchester United, who would die for their club and want to end their careers at United. That is down to a deep love for the club they represent and overrides ANY other factors such as money or not getting a regular place in the side. The loyalty issue FIRST hit home for me with Andrei Kanchelkis who, after having a couple of outstanding seasons at United, opted to move on for money reasons, manipulating his own move away from the club through his agent. Heinze, doing the same thing again last season, wanting to sign for Liverpool........unbelievable, but eventually going to Real. These people are extreme mercenaries, and it appears that Flamini and Hleb are in the same category. These type of players deserve NO respect from anybody, and any team foolish enough to sign them should be aware of their WEAK characters. Harry Kewell is a prime example of when it all goes wrong for this type of player.

 
  • papa5murf
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BMJ wrote:

Wenger also needs to tinker with the system and style Arsenal plays. I just think they lack variety and an ability to play ugly to grind out a result. They peg back the opposition and switch from left to right, right to left and look for that killer 1 2 and it becomes predictable in way even if it is great football. An Arsenal midfielder gets the ball just outside the box with room to shot and he passes it instead of having a shot on goal. Wenger has to instill into his players an ability of going direct if that opportunity arises.


I don't believe the style needs to be tinkered with. However, I do believe that some of our midfielders need to take a shot from outside the box more often when given the opportunity instead of looking for that final magical pass. We have seen more success when they took the shot. Earlier in the year, they'd take shots from any place in and around the box if they were given space and we scored goals in bunches. Cesc had a few goals as well in our early season run of form. Then for some reason, we went away from that, and then went back to it towards the end of the campaign.

Taking shots from outside the box does a lot for our style of play. It brings the defenders out, since they need to close down to not allow an outside shot on goal and in turn leaves space behind the defenders for that magic pass from the likes of Cesc or Hleb. Unfortunately, when we went away from that, other teams would just pack the box with 6 or 8 defenders.

This is why I feel that Kranjcar could be a better player at Arsenal than Hleb is. Kranjcar isn't afraid to take a shot on goal when given space; while on the other hand, Hleb won't take a shot on goal unless it's a one on one with the keeper.

 
  • specnur
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BMJ wrote:
specnur wrote:


I disagree.

There isn't one player in the world that i have seen that can replace Hleb and the things he can do.
Very few player can just fit into Arsenals style of play,it would take knowing the movement of his teammates and the intricacies of their ability.

The way you describe Hleb is as if he has been a world class player for the last 3-4 years. Cant agree with you there. Also there are a number of players that could fit into the Arsenal system. But guess what, you gotta spend money to get em.

Still haven't named them buddy!

"Tinker with Arsenals style"
I don't think so.There is nothing wrong with their style in fact it is the most effective way of breaking any teams in the world.Case in point 1.Undefeated season,2)Champ league final with 10 men.3)2-0 down with 10 men v Bolton won the game 2-3. etc.


What about Arsenal's loss to Middlesborough and 4 consecutive draws when they were leading the league. Where was Arsenal's super human breaking down power there? A team like Arsenal shouldn't have runs like these...


Loosing to middlesborough isn't such a bad thing,did you check boro's form against the other top 4?From what i remember they gave every one of them problems and may have beaten them if i'm not mistaken.
Arsenal loosing and drawing games had nothing to do with their style,but had a lot to do with Depth and fatigue.As i stated before ,the concentration level at the back was very poor especiallly against the "weaker teams".


What they need is consistency at the back nowhere else.If the back 4 are sorted everything else will fall into place with the team having more confidence going forward.No team in the world control and pass the ball as well as Arsenal at such a high percentage each game.There are teams who can link plays together just as well i.e. Barca,real Madrid and Man U ,but none of thsoe teams can do so as consistently as Arsenal each game.It's the hardest style to defend against as it is impossible to know where the ball is going next.The precision of passing and accuracy and speed of pass,the ability to control the ball under extreme pressure is what all those top teams admire and try to emulate.If it were easy everyone would be doing it.

The difference between Arsenal and Manchester United was that Man U were able to change their style according to the opposition. They knew when to play passing football and they knew when it was right and/or neccessary to go the direct route. Arsenal played the same all the time. They were over patient in games against inferior opposition and lacked urgency in games they thought were certain 3 points for em. That's why they need a few players that will have the instinct to adapt to the reality of the ingame situation and be able to provide a plan b option if the game isn't going their way. Arsenal's play is attractive and they are not far off, dont get me wrong, but they just need a killer instinct that the current squad lacks imo.

Killer instinct is something they have to work on i agree,but Arsenals style of football when on form is impossible to defeat i don't care who the opposition is,they have proven it time and time again.Arsenal forced team like Man U to change their game totally to a point where ferguson won't admit it but has nothing but respect for.It's not just pretty football when you are top of the league,when you are beaten Barcelona with 10 men or when you go undefeated a complete season. People always tend to forget these facts when others are winning silverwear . I don't think in the least Wenger is disappointed in the way Arsenal competed this season,and if everyone is completely honest, they overachieved.So all this talk is nothing but garbage,come back next season with the same topic and you may have some justification in your comments otherwise they are out of context with reality of Arsenals development curve.

This season was supposed to be the "improvement" year for Arsenal as well as last year.NO ONE gave them a shot in hell this season and they shocked everyone by leading the table at all ,Wenger needs a lot of credit for that.Next season should be the season when they are expected to win stuff,but the way they are on the verge of loosing these key players that could a fantasy also.
Arsenal's whole season could have been different if Hleb would have gotten that penalty ,that the whole world said should have been awarded.

Who cares about pre-season predictions. Arsenal were 6 points or so in front. Im positive they were extremely confident in the dressing room and all the Arsenal supporters here were certainly confident of league crown. I was certainly sweating when they were in front, they right in the mix. Chelsea were discounted at that stage..lol. Arsenal are in a fantasy world atm. It's always "next year". It always "Young guns are not ready yet". Another season like this one will see Wenger out imo. It might be all back slaps and "good game out there" beers atm, but everyone is expendable and these things can happen very quickly.


My friend,you have a warped sense of reality.The reason why everyone didn't give Arsenal a hope was because they had just lost Henry the main man on the team and a massive void to fill.Anyone with an ounce of sense would tell you that they would need time to develop chemistry after loosing a man who gave them 30 goals and 20 odd assist three years in a row.I am someone who believes in Arsenals ability a great deal ,but even i thought they would have a rough time this season.All be it because of the way the officials let teams get away with kicking them off the park.Arsenal made that adjustment ,big time and fought fire with fire forcing the officials to change the rules again with their '"No studs tackles".They never brouyght that up when sunderland broke diaby's leg in a game of no significance.Wenger out ha! you wish.


 
  • O Dogg
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Fixed your post Specnur Wink

Should Arsenal fans be worried?
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