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Thread: Lets fight the Islamic State

  1. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post
    i was, perhaps foolishly, specifically listing military interventions - I'm no expert on the US military and nor am I particularly interested in a lengthy debate on them. I'll happily confess i know next to nothing about Desert Storm.

    however, if i look again at the wording of your question i see that it isn't actually limited to military interventions in a 'war' sense. so, with that in mind, how about these:

    if you're looking at the US as an evil empire with its tentacles spread into foreign lands then you will see it and add a subtext even in the case of humanitarian aid. as you should know by now, I'm certainly no apologist for the US or its behaviour around the planet. however to say they've NEVER helped people of colour is just b*llocks.
    What i am saying, and what i am sticking by until the day die, is that the west primarily the UK, France and USA only help people of colour when it benefits them.
    You can list as many example where you think otherwise and feel completely confident there is always some anterior motive, it part of their DNA as governments absolute degenerate parasites. Rinse a country dry and then leg it.
    I know this is a hard thing for you to swallow mate ,but it's part of the cleansing process and i'm here to help you get through it.

    These habits of our leaders have not slowed down one bit since they started ,they have just become more covert due to them having accept that darker folk are actually 100% human.
    We are as we speak repeating what is coming back to haunt us ,but it won't be haunting us ,it will be haunting our kids . And if they hate our very existence for sitting by and letting this shit happen after so many instances in the past where we should have learned ,then that is something we have to accept.
    I for one won't raise my kids to accept the mistakes of their parents ,not when it affects their future .
    If you actually believe in equality of all races across this planet then you (not you specifically) will have to accept the deeds of your past so they are not repeated .
    Right now we are at a cross roads as a species ,make no mistake about it, and the next 10 years are going to be very telling.
    Last edited by specnur; 17-05-2017 at 05:29 PM.

  2. #252
    The Americans bombed a convoy of Syrian tanks and troops last night
    as they were getting too close to the Jihadists that they have armed and trained.

    This is the 2nd time now that the Yanks have illegally attacked pro Assad troops.

    Meanwhile the Iraqi army are now close to taking back Mosul form the Islamic State.

  3. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post
    well that was my point. if that's the way you're thinking then even when our men and women are pulling these people out from under the rubble of their homes after a natural disaster you'll still be thinking their intentions are selfish and nefarious. there is literally nothing they can do to change your way of thinking.

    if they don't go in to help, they're uncaring towards those people. if they do go in to help they're doing so for their own gain.

    However, let us not forget that this is the thread about the Islamic State.

    tell me what Islam has ever done for black people.
    But you are comparing natural disaster to domestic conflict , it's a completely wrong analogy to make. As humans we are supposed to help someone who are in need due to natural causes if they need help. But when it's apolitical upheaval we ned to say out. Because there will always be the cloud of the people who we help rewarding us with some under the table gain as part of the deal. If you are going in there to help one side for a reason then make it public that thetas what you are.

    What as Islam done for Black people ?
    I haven't got a clue ,but it's done less harm to us than Christianity i'll tell you that pal.
    I'll go to my grave believing black criminal go to jail in America become Muslim and for the rest of their life lead a law abiding life which is clean and disciplined , primarily because Christianity in that country has been the terror document that has hunted them since the set foot off of the slave ship.
    Islam is about as colorless a religion you will get .Pictured i saw of Mecca were a about as diverse as you'll get.
    That doesn't mean i'll join up any time soon ,i firmly believe only the lost follow.

  4. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post
    you're moving the goalposts again. your second question, after the first one was successfully answered, was "What i mean is when have they gone to help people of colour in a foreign land?"

    I should have been more specific. But seeing we are not in a thread that has its foundation in military conflict i just took it for granted that that train of thought would not morph into natural disasters.

    what is humanitarian aid if not helping? what is pulling people from rubble? funding significant rescue efforts? using national resources to help a country and its people in times of need?
    That's choice made by country that has been asked or has offered their services in a event that was not man made.
    We are talking about taking sides in social conflict here are we not?

    but your questions were leading ones. they were deliberately implying that Western powers do not help, nor do they want to help, people of colour. that is demonstrably false. the politicking and string pulling is an entirely separate thing. to say (or even imply) we do nothing to help is just false, plain and simple.
    Well you need to give me examples of when they have done so then ,when it hasn't benefited them. Its not in their DNA mate you just have to learn to live with that fact. It is a general statement regarding solely our governments decision and not that of independent organizations. I want to know when it has happened not in Vietnam, Not IN WW2 in and Not in the current conflict in the middle east. If you find one instance where it happened i guarantee i will find you 30 to counter it ,basically ridiculing any notion that our country has the level of benevolence we like to believe .

    what's with this whataboutery? it was a simple question and I didn't refer to Christianity or any other religion.
    I just gave you an example of how Islam has helped black people.
    You see i think what needs to be understood is that when the flowers of Islam trying to wipe out people how didn't follow Islam they did so because they thought their teachings were superior. When the European went to foreign countries with that bible in hand ,they did so because they thought the PEOPLE were inferior. Its a different mindset.

    the gaps in your history knowledge is vast and blinkered. fill it with answering the above question as your homework assignment and get back to me. because if I tell you, and I have done several times, you're not interested and seek to counter it through the filter of whataboutery.
    focus on that question alone. look at what Islam has done to Africa and Africans and is doing right now.
    As i have said i see what Islam is doing in Africa and it is based on the region and NOT what the people look like.
    But since you bring it up go look at Frances input in say Nigeria with those Islamic extremists . Funnelling weapons to them to keep killing their own people

  5. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post
    mate, if you think that Islam has been a positive influence on Africa and black people then good luck to you.

    i'll bow out here.
    That's not what i was saying though was it!
    Particularly i Africa .
    In America in some area which i have described it has been positive influence based on where a small minority of black folks were at that point in their life (Jail) .
    That's some flipping trampoline you got there getting from that place to where you go to with that statement ffs!
    You know my opinion on religion by now ,but my issue with people how have problem make decisions based on WHAT I LOOK LIKE not what i believe in.
    There should be no confusion in that in this discussion.
    Last edited by specnur; 23-05-2017 at 01:41 PM.

  6. #256

  7. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post

    I'm not entirely sure why you hold a preference for inhumane treatment of people based on their thoughts over their appearance anyway. both are utterly and equally abhorrent to me.
    Because you can do nothing about your appearance but you can do everything about your thoughts .
    It might make you feel uncomfortable changing your views,but it may save your life or enhance it.
    People die because of the colour of their skin and that alone , Stephen Lawrence is a fine example of that.
    If you are are racist you can pretend not to be and make a situation more comfortable ,if you follow a religion that doesn't fit to your beliefs ,you can change that to fit into whatever society you chose .
    Basically in some parts of the world what you look like is an affliction that holds you back for living life a streamlined as the majority of that land.
    If you can't see why i have a problem with that ,then your a ability to see anything from a ethnic perspective is worse than i thought.
    Last edited by specnur; 31-05-2017 at 05:57 AM.

  8. #258
    Just before i forget here is list of countries where the west overthrew the democratically elected governments.
    Iran 1953
    Jordan 1957
    Indonesia 1965
    Algeria 1990
    Azerbaijan 1993
    Palestine 2007
    Egypt 2013

    So lets end the myth about terrorist hating us for our "freedoms" or democracy, or that they follow a primitive region that brainwashes them into doing such, here shall we and try and focus on what really might be driving them outside of mental illness .

  9. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post
    have you got a list of the countries Sweden overthrew? or are they just 'The West' because they're whiteys?
    Sweden are not the focus of terrorist like Spain ,yes they may get the odd nutter in their community who wants to make a name .But rest assured when those ISIS cranks preach about blowing up the west ,they are targeting the main players in politics worldwide. Particularly those that have had their boot on the back of middle eastern necks over the last few 60 years.

  10. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post
    two questions for you.

    1. Do you think that if we cease to involve ourselves in the Middle East in anyway for the next 100 years that we will not experience another attack on our soil?
    If we started tomorrow next month we probably will suffer another attack or next year but once it is obvious that the west have legitimately removed itself from the region ,there is no question in my mind the attacks will cease.
    But pulling out is only a start to peace in that region ! What about all the people we put in place ? What about all the conflicts that now rage on between faction that we caused? You can't just pull out and wash your hands of all that you have left to fester. But maybe pulling out will help a great deal for sure.

    2. Do you think the people conducting these attacks have 'freedom for the people of the middle east' as their objective?
    Not all of them ,but i think a great deal of people who join ISIS have a massive beef with the west and their treatment of people in that region and i think the conflict in Israel in particular has been the most effective recruitment tool in the last 30 years . There is no doubt in my mind for a middle class white kid from America's mid west to join up, the plight of the Palestinians was driving force behind his decision . I don't think any person with a conscience can look at the massive difference between the dead on both sides and not be affected incredibly. Do those people have other issues in their life helping them pack up their rucksack for the dessert ,quite probably but the conflict has been the trigger for a lot of people .

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