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Thread: Paris/Europe Under Terrorist Attack

  1. #271
    in fact any British Muslim who has been to fight for ISIS in Syria should
    be arrested if they have since come back to the UK and they are know to the police.

  2. #272
    [QUOTE=Steely;1386497]
    It may sound an obscene thing to say, but I doubt the average Jihadist carries the same conscience as the average German soldier. their moral compass is more on a scale with the Nazi top brass calling the shots, rather than the subordinates following orders - notwithstanding the fact that they believe they're fighting the good fight to please their prophet and be rewarded with eternal paradise.
    True but they are a minority of the scale probably difficult to put into numerical context within that religion.

  3. #273
    Some of the stories we are hearing from this awful event is truly heartbreaking. Evil and twisted to murder anyone but to target kids leaving a concert.....

  4. #274
    Shame on the American security services
    for leaking secure information about the attack to the New York Times

  5. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post
    I've already addressed this point a few pages back:

    it isn't just 'a few nutters' though is it. Al Qaeda, Al-Nusra, Muslim Brotherhood, Al-Mourabitoun, Boko Haram, Islamic State, Taliban, Al Shabaab, Hezbollah, Jamaat-ul-Ahrar and more all operate as functioning groups in various parts of the world pushing for the same goal and led by the word of their God and His messenger.

    approximately 10,000 deaths since 2010 around the world due to Islamist terrorism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rorist_attacks

    it is of course completely true to say that countless muslims live peacefully. however that doesn't mean the ideology is peaceful. thankfully few people follow the letter of their religion completely - and I say that with all religions in mind.
    And the exact same thing can be said about the European version of Christianity and times what Islam has done 10 fold.
    And i would like to see numbers that indicate how many islamist killed their own and how many Christians killed their own ?
    10,000 deaths since 2010 ! I wonder how many deaths invading western countries have accumulated in the same time?

  6. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post

    Good ! now maybe we can get inside his head and inform us of his motivation for doing this .

  7. #277
    [QUOTE=Steely;1386524]
    the age of the girl is fact and a symbol of the innocence of those murdered that night.

    as you should know by now, I don't support any sort of intervention in Syria. however you should be aware that US intervention in Syria has generally been to the benefit of Islamists in the region. the US want Assad gone and so do the Islamists.

    my focus is definitely more on people in my country being blown to sh*t than the suffering of people in a foreign civil war - notwithstanding my consistent condemnation of the killing of innocents in all its forms.
    Well this is it in a nutshell though right here. It goes without question we should mourn our dead more than others to some degree ,but where is the balance .There is none 68 blown to pieces on a bus the same day almost and not even a fraction of the attention that a given to that one 8 year old girl.
    You will never in a thousand years understand what that looks like for MY point of view and i'm not even for that region . I'm just another minority that grew up under the impression my life and existence was worth less than a white man. So i fully understand what this would look like to those who are for that region where that bus and it's young occupants were blown to smithereens.
    If you can't see how the myth of equality in the eyes of those who are fighting for it is joke then we will for ever be arguing these points.
    I see that little girl blown up and i have no more sympathy for her than i do for the "counties" kids in Syria, Iraq and Palestine .Maybe you can call me unpatriotic but i really don't look at it like that .I look at it as being an human being whose hearty breaks when any child suffers.
    That one girl getting 10 front pages and the 68 kids getting 1 is a f@cking disgrace to me ,and pretty much indicates the absolute hypocrisy in the press and with lemming=s that lap that sh!t up...........willingly.


    what? these people exclude themselves from society. they do so because we are kafir. take the bloke who did the Manchester bomb, he was born here after his parents were apparently taken in as refugees from Gaddafi's Libya. we house his parents, clothed him, educated him and provided healthcare for him. despite that, his thanks was to murder our people.
    Well i wasn't really talking about that bloke in particular i was talking about those that came up through the times i grew up.
    How they have become more militant ,not to the level of terrorists ,but to the level of doing whatever else they have to do to protect the one thing that gave them solace in this country when their backs were against the wall.Because what you will find is that some of their kids who grew up watching their parent bend over backwards to become part of British society only to be ripped off ,spat upon and treated like garbage ,have now become your terrorists.


    by 'smell a rat' I presume you're hinting at some sort of 'false flag' drivel. i'll not bother to explore this further as I grant you a bit more credit than that...
    All i'm saying is that something just doesn't feel right about this event .It's just a gut feeling . I have no evidence or read into any ridiculous internet conspiracy bullsh!t just looking at the demographic of the victims chosen for this atrocity.


    there definitely should be an acceptance that religion (all of them) is fair game for ridicule. f*ck them. their ideas are a joke and that should be pointed out to them at every available opportunity. Noah's Ark? really? Sermon on the Mount? you reckon? Heaven on a winged horse? are you sure?
    As i said if all those who followed said religions were on an equal; footing in society then that would hold water . As it is right now especially in France you are having laugh and asking for trouble .

    you're missing the point that, as kafir, we are considered sub-human. are lives are worth less and worthless.
    I don't know about any of that and the number of muslim followers in the UK adopts such a ridiculous theory.
    Because it has been one of the things in the west indian community since i was a kid that really angered us abut asian folk ,they did everything to try and assimilate into a society that rejected them at every turn . And most of them refused to be roped into the same level as the my community .



    that people will not criticise religion or produce an image of a person who lived 1400 years ago under fear of death must surely by the alarm bell you need to realise that perhaps the religion is not quite as peaceful as you'd like to believe.
    Again , it is a mall minority who would do so. 1.5 billion mate think about.
    Living in peace with nothing to do with terrorism. They take for the book what they want and interpret it the way that suits them obviously. And the majority of them who live in the west do so in harmony with local laws.



    I
    've already said it. remove every penny of public money subsidy and assistance from any religiously affiliated group, building, school and office. introduce taxation on the totality of their income and remove their charitable status to help towards the costs of monitoring their activity. introduce and enforce sentences for people who are aware of terrorist acts likely to be committed but remain silent. a complete removal and outlawing of any form of sharia court in this country.
    Interesting this right here . Because we could also say the same about British citizens who sit by knowing full well that an invasion of any middle eastern country is solely for oil . Should they be held accountable for that ,because i am sure you for one have said otherwise when i have reasoned that in the past.
    British intelligence just snit that intelligent judging by this case ,because you couldn't find a better example of a person of interest than what i have heard about this bloke . I think THEY should be held accountable ,but i doubt that anyone will pay for dropping this clanger.


    come down hard on the entirety of religion, but not on the people except in circumstances whereby they are unable to behave themselves.
    I have said this for years .If you come to live in this country whatever religion you follow has to be in harmony with our laws. No ifs ands or buts about it.
    If you can't live within our laws then you have to go.



    for sure, I've been over that same thing a few times and even do so above. I'm not singling out Islam for its fantasist teachings - all of it requires the same level of ridicule. where one veers off from another is in the thousands of murders around the world being carried out on the name of only one of them.
    Mate ,lets look at the sequence of events for second . Ever since the west created the taste of Israel there have been terrorist activity for what i have learnt. The more
    Isreali's thumb their noses at those that allowed them to share their land ,the UK and the USA's warnings to not build any more settlements the violence has increased. The west do nothing about Isreal's illegal building and seizing of land ,so obviously those folks that are suffering feel they lives are being devalued and other muslims
    feel their religion is under attack. I'm just throwing that out there for contemplation. the west created this mess ,because enow we have factions of Islamist's fighting over who is best to take on the west. that's what it seems like to me anyway. We berated this bulls!t but fail to hold our politicians accountable for the murders on our soil today . All because we have become soft and almost comatose by what we see and read in the press. We have lost all fight because we have been conditioned to .We demonstrated about not entering into the Iraq conflict ,got ignored ,found out years later that WE were right and the politicians admitting they were wrong and we still sit on our hands . So what we will see is this tedious circus go round again and the death of another little girl shocking us out of morning stupor solely for readership and not compassion.

  8. #278
    it isn't being hijacked, it is being literally interpreted as far as I understand. they call it 'fundamentalism' because they're taking the religion at its word, as they feel the Prophet intended it. one of Islam's obvious problems is that there is no defined interpretation. some will tell you homosexuality is a sin, others turn a blind eye. some will drink alcohol, some wont. some will have several wives, some will have one. some will have a wife dressed head to toe in a sheet, others are content for their missus to flash her hair about. the idea that the 'moderates' are correct in their interpretation but the 'extremists' are wrong holds no basis in fact whatsoever.
    So where are the waves of people reading into this coming into our country ? Because if that were the case there isn't enough boats or planes to accommodate them going by what you are saying .
    Like the bible it is interpreted the way the individual see's it. If one person is mentally imbalanced he will read it one way.
    Ig one bloke's wife left him ,lost his job and kid died in car accident he may see it another way. But the VAST majority see it in way that bothers no one .


    the mere fact that their religion can be legitimately interpreted in the way that is does should ring alarm bells but people are too entrenched and too fearful of their god, their social status within the community or their family to consider that their religion actually isn't the answer to all of life's questions. apostasy in Islam isn't looked on too kindly...
    Ditto any religion under the sun mate. Islam does not have exclusivity on that and one could argue the bible is evermore hypocritical and ridiculous and has been the cause of much more misery to people across the globe.



    as I said, this bloke's family were saved from their homeland and given everything they could desire. yet, despite this, he decided to murder innocents.
    Yep , and they probably knew nothing about his intentions as is the case with many of the people who commit massacres from Colombine to Sandy Hook.

    if you're going to hold us accountable for militant Islamism then you're going to have to consider that Africa is similarly accountable. as is the Philippines, as is Indonesia, as is East Timor, as is everywhere else on the planet that has suffered fatalities at the hands of Islamists. if these attacks were restricted to "The West" then you might have a ghost of a point but, as is stands, your hollow bleating will have to go on in vain because I don't view it with an ounce of credibility since you can't account for the bloodshed of your African brothers and sisters across the past 1000 years and more at their hands.
    Them being African had noting to do with them dying though and for one it is a FACT that Book Haram are being given weapons by the French . Are you really willing to bet that relies conflict in Africa is not enabled by the west? It is the west best interest to have them fighting among themselves whilst they steal natural resources for that continent. They have murdered anyone who has tried to unify that continent to prove that theory. I for one have absolute no trust in any western connection to that land. Their record speaks for itself.


    oh, hang on, so there is somebody more responsible for blowing up children leaving a pop concert than the person who blew up children leaving a pop concert?

    have a word with yourself ffs.
    Well all this terrorist activity that has increased over theist 20 years in alarming numbers stems from somewhere pal. And if you believe it was all part of tehran 1000's of years ago that in the year 2000 they will step up the attack on the west you are on crack!
    There is no doubt in my mind western influence and meddling in the middle eats has put us in this situation today .
    There are those who will say and do whatever they can to ignore this fact ,because it is part of the way they feel it is our "god given right " to invade other because we are Superior and they are primitive in comparison .



    and there it is. the last resort when all other self-loathing fails.

    anything to avoid the elephant in the room. again.
    [/QUOTE]

    The Elephant in the room is on the paragraph above mate.
    That is the sole reason we see out land targeting by the e f@cking nutters!
    And its about time people manned up and handed the that truth .

  9. #279

  10. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post
    it isn't about equality, it is about relating. there is no chance my daughter will be on a bus in Syria but there is every chance my daughter will attend a pop concert in Britain. one is clearly more relatable than the other.
    All things being EQUAL ,reporting of the Bus massacre may have been up there with the Norwegian massacre mate ,let's not keep pretending here.

    what you say is right. we're dealing with an enemy that thinks nothing of killing and maiming kids. whether they be black, brown or white, they're not fussed. a kafir is fair game in whatever stripe they come in. you know what, if our pages did offer the same dedication towards the death of people because of Islamists there wouldn't be much room for anything else. 10,000 since 2010.
    Maybe our part in the conflicts that gave praise to them has something to do with their decision not to print about it.


    again, Islamist terrorism isn't restricted to Great Britain or even Europe. so even if the above were to be wholly true, there is still a massive gap in explaining the rest of them. how do you fill that gap?
    But how do you jump from a relatively peaceful living people for untold decades all of sudden "sympathizing" if not becoming terrorists in our country ?
    You are then who would haves us believe that that religion breeds terrorist ,yet for the time i have mentioned here there were almost zero . Everything kicked off after Iraq for what i can see. We killed Saddam and we got ISIS ,We killed Gadaffi and North Africa has become a bloodbath . You keep blaming these attacks on the religion and completely absolve you government of all responsibility or at least a much as it deserves.



    demographic? you mean white girls? yes, it's not like there are any other examples of Islamists targeting white girls for anything or considering them as either 'easy meat' or inferior in any way is there. this definitely is a unique situation.
    Well if you can name me another case where this has taken place i'm am all ears .
    To me it just doesn't make any sense to target such a group unless it was just part of upping the level of egregiousness ,which i am not ruling out.


    we would be ridiculing ideas, not individuals. if people want to persist in perpetuating nonsense ideas and fantasy but took any mocking personally then that is their problem, whatever their age or ethnicity. even more so when it feeds into even more undesirable traits like the mistreatment of women and homosexuals.
    But you see this is where we keep running into seeing eye to eye ,because your reality as a person of white bloke and mine as person of colour are completely different . I would never in my life try to say i understand what it is like to live life as white person and there is no way you can tell me how things look through our eyes on daily basis. In that way we are detached completely and that gets for ANY ethnicity living in the west. You live believing that all things are equal and for the most part i would say in the UK it is MORE equal than any other place which have said numerous times before ,but that is not the norm. It may not be more equal in say Sweden or Norway but those countries are not burdened with the History our country has built over hundreds of years and continue to this day . Our country just won't give its;lf a break and keep putting itself and its citizens in harms way ,because it foolishly believes the people/countries they are ruining will remain patient whilst we come to our moral senses.


    well there are around 3,000 on a watchlist so that number would be a good start. there will, of course, be others not quite caught up in that or keep their true beliefs under wraps. In terms of assimilation, where I grew up there was little to no effort from that community. it doesn't seem to have changed since I left either.
    mate ffs! If you have tried to integrate for a long as they have only to be treated like inferior beings at best ,you tend to rely on your own .They were forced into that situation and if you honestly believe otherwise you really don't have as much of a idea about that community as you think. Of course they will tend to try and maintain their identity as a people ,but for a black standpoint growing up it was known throughout our community that they looked like willing sell outs to us .


    well yes, that is another problem with religion. they take it a la carte to suit their lives. how many catholics use contraception? how many muslims drink alcohol? etc etc

    what is a true muslim? there isn't one. the one who fits into western societal norms are portrayed over here as true muslims. yet the Saudi's will tell you different. The Turks will tell you something else. the Somalians will tell you another way is the true way.
    As far as i can see and form what i have been told by many in differing areas ,be it "Black" converts in the US or Indian or Middle eastern blokes that i have worked with at times ,it seems to lean towards the 1.5 billion that do not commit terrorist acts. A peaceful person who is dedicated to scripture in a way that doesn't harm others. That's how the majority of people have come across take what is written in the book.

    while it is positive that people choose not to interpret their religious texts in its original context, a more positive thing for me would be if people just used their own personal moral compass to live their lives rather than be guided by the hand picked "words of God" that suit them.
    In an ideal world that would be my thinking also ,but many people are not strong enough or their conditions just do not allow what may seem as "luxuries".
    I fine example would be the black man after the abolition of slavery in America . Disillusioned by the hypocrisy in this European version of the holy book forced upon them ,a lot of brothers ran to Islam . And in my view a lot of them did so solely because it wasn't WHITE rather than it being an accurate depiction of how life should be run. They saw those that converted clean cut dressed impeccably well fed and with moral structure and though man i need some of that. To them was either that or turn to drugs or worst to survive and some of us just refused to continue along the path set for them by the white establishment. Personally i feel lucky that i have not needed to lean on religion to maintain my sanity.




    if there is proof that somebody has been behind the killing of innocents for such frivolous purposes then, by all means, punish them. I'm not sure that me reporting Tony Blair to the Met Police will help anything though. there is a very obvious difference if I were to contact the Met about some bloke on the street corner calling for the death of jews and the introduction of Sharia Law on our streets.
    All i'm saying is that blokes who think like you probably weren't out there protesting the Decision to Invade ,and maybe the 500,000 or whatever number did protest , would have been 1,000,000 . A number that would be unmanageable by the establishment and the fear of civil unrest by such a number would scare any politician for deciding against the will of the people .


    So Islamists never killed or invaded non-muslim lands (or Europe generally seeing as you always want to ignore the horrendous treatment of your brother and sister Africans for some reason) prior to the creation of the state of Israel? are you sure about that?
    But it is then context of that invasion ,i for one am not ignorant of the history of Islam and its treatment of African's .
    But i think we are dealing with totally different mindset here Muslims have killed African's ,Christian's have killed African's ,Muslims are Killing Muslims and so on and so forth. But ,it is my contention that the west has a KNOWN history of having a completely different mindset of superiority due to race and demeaning anything cultural of any land they invade be it religion or anything else because of it. you only need to look at how many countries Muslims have colonized over theist 300 years in comparison to the west to get my meaning.


    No, we have Islamists seeking to re-establish an Islamist caliphate and are trying to achieve this through terror - exactly as their prophet did.
    Well not for what i have learnt . The Taliban by all accounts just want to rid there region of occupying forces and commit attacks on them within in theory and whereas ISIS want to take the fight to foreign soil. Just for an example . In ISIS we are talking about such a small number ,maybe 300,000 tops spread across the middles East and Africa. There is no way they can win ,but the more we interfere and let Israel get away with what they are doing, the easier it is for them to grow that number .


    What do you suggest?
    Get out of the region completely and the only intervention would have to be firstly through unilateral request and then it has to be accepted by the citizens of our country wither we get involved.

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