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Thread: Paris/Europe Under Terrorist Attack

  1. #431
    [QUOTE=Steely;1386524]
    the age of the girl is fact and a symbol of the innocence of those murdered that night.

    as you should know by now, I don't support any sort of intervention in Syria. however you should be aware that US intervention in Syria has generally been to the benefit of Islamists in the region. the US want Assad gone and so do the Islamists.

    my focus is definitely more on people in my country being blown to sh*t than the suffering of people in a foreign civil war - notwithstanding my consistent condemnation of the killing of innocents in all its forms.
    Well this is it in a nutshell though right here. It goes without question we should mourn our dead more than others to some degree ,but where is the balance .There is none 68 blown to pieces on a bus the same day almost and not even a fraction of the attention that a given to that one 8 year old girl.
    You will never in a thousand years understand what that looks like for MY point of view and i'm not even for that region . I'm just another minority that grew up under the impression my life and existence was worth less than a white man. So i fully understand what this would look like to those who are for that region where that bus and it's young occupants were blown to smithereens.
    If you can't see how the myth of equality in the eyes of those who are fighting for it is joke then we will for ever be arguing these points.
    I see that little girl blown up and i have no more sympathy for her than i do for the "counties" kids in Syria, Iraq and Palestine .Maybe you can call me unpatriotic but i really don't look at it like that .I look at it as being an human being whose hearty breaks when any child suffers.
    That one girl getting 10 front pages and the 68 kids getting 1 is a f@cking disgrace to me ,and pretty much indicates the absolute hypocrisy in the press and with lemming=s that lap that sh!t up...........willingly.


    what? these people exclude themselves from society. they do so because we are kafir. take the bloke who did the Manchester bomb, he was born here after his parents were apparently taken in as refugees from Gaddafi's Libya. we house his parents, clothed him, educated him and provided healthcare for him. despite that, his thanks was to murder our people.
    Well i wasn't really talking about that bloke in particular i was talking about those that came up through the times i grew up.
    How they have become more militant ,not to the level of terrorists ,but to the level of doing whatever else they have to do to protect the one thing that gave them solace in this country when their backs were against the wall.Because what you will find is that some of their kids who grew up watching their parent bend over backwards to become part of British society only to be ripped off ,spat upon and treated like garbage ,have now become your terrorists.


    by 'smell a rat' I presume you're hinting at some sort of 'false flag' drivel. i'll not bother to explore this further as I grant you a bit more credit than that...
    All i'm saying is that something just doesn't feel right about this event .It's just a gut feeling . I have no evidence or read into any ridiculous internet conspiracy bullsh!t just looking at the demographic of the victims chosen for this atrocity.


    there definitely should be an acceptance that religion (all of them) is fair game for ridicule. f*ck them. their ideas are a joke and that should be pointed out to them at every available opportunity. Noah's Ark? really? Sermon on the Mount? you reckon? Heaven on a winged horse? are you sure?
    As i said if all those who followed said religions were on an equal; footing in society then that would hold water . As it is right now especially in France you are having laugh and asking for trouble .

    you're missing the point that, as kafir, we are considered sub-human. are lives are worth less and worthless.
    I don't know about any of that and the number of muslim followers in the UK adopts such a ridiculous theory.
    Because it has been one of the things in the west indian community since i was a kid that really angered us abut asian folk ,they did everything to try and assimilate into a society that rejected them at every turn . And most of them refused to be roped into the same level as the my community .



    that people will not criticise religion or produce an image of a person who lived 1400 years ago under fear of death must surely by the alarm bell you need to realise that perhaps the religion is not quite as peaceful as you'd like to believe.
    Again , it is a mall minority who would do so. 1.5 billion mate think about.
    Living in peace with nothing to do with terrorism. They take for the book what they want and interpret it the way that suits them obviously. And the majority of them who live in the west do so in harmony with local laws.



    I
    've already said it. remove every penny of public money subsidy and assistance from any religiously affiliated group, building, school and office. introduce taxation on the totality of their income and remove their charitable status to help towards the costs of monitoring their activity. introduce and enforce sentences for people who are aware of terrorist acts likely to be committed but remain silent. a complete removal and outlawing of any form of sharia court in this country.
    Interesting this right here . Because we could also say the same about British citizens who sit by knowing full well that an invasion of any middle eastern country is solely for oil . Should they be held accountable for that ,because i am sure you for one have said otherwise when i have reasoned that in the past.
    British intelligence just snit that intelligent judging by this case ,because you couldn't find a better example of a person of interest than what i have heard about this bloke . I think THEY should be held accountable ,but i doubt that anyone will pay for dropping this clanger.


    come down hard on the entirety of religion, but not on the people except in circumstances whereby they are unable to behave themselves.
    I have said this for years .If you come to live in this country whatever religion you follow has to be in harmony with our laws. No ifs ands or buts about it.
    If you can't live within our laws then you have to go.



    for sure, I've been over that same thing a few times and even do so above. I'm not singling out Islam for its fantasist teachings - all of it requires the same level of ridicule. where one veers off from another is in the thousands of murders around the world being carried out on the name of only one of them.
    Mate ,lets look at the sequence of events for second . Ever since the west created the taste of Israel there have been terrorist activity for what i have learnt. The more
    Isreali's thumb their noses at those that allowed them to share their land ,the UK and the USA's warnings to not build any more settlements the violence has increased. The west do nothing about Isreal's illegal building and seizing of land ,so obviously those folks that are suffering feel they lives are being devalued and other muslims
    feel their religion is under attack. I'm just throwing that out there for contemplation. the west created this mess ,because enow we have factions of Islamist's fighting over who is best to take on the west. that's what it seems like to me anyway. We berated this bulls!t but fail to hold our politicians accountable for the murders on our soil today . All because we have become soft and almost comatose by what we see and read in the press. We have lost all fight because we have been conditioned to .We demonstrated about not entering into the Iraq conflict ,got ignored ,found out years later that WE were right and the politicians admitting they were wrong and we still sit on our hands . So what we will see is this tedious circus go round again and the death of another little girl shocking us out of morning stupor solely for readership and not compassion.

  2. #432
    it isn't being hijacked, it is being literally interpreted as far as I understand. they call it 'fundamentalism' because they're taking the religion at its word, as they feel the Prophet intended it. one of Islam's obvious problems is that there is no defined interpretation. some will tell you homosexuality is a sin, others turn a blind eye. some will drink alcohol, some wont. some will have several wives, some will have one. some will have a wife dressed head to toe in a sheet, others are content for their missus to flash her hair about. the idea that the 'moderates' are correct in their interpretation but the 'extremists' are wrong holds no basis in fact whatsoever.
    So where are the waves of people reading into this coming into our country ? Because if that were the case there isn't enough boats or planes to accommodate them going by what you are saying .
    Like the bible it is interpreted the way the individual see's it. If one person is mentally imbalanced he will read it one way.
    Ig one bloke's wife left him ,lost his job and kid died in car accident he may see it another way. But the VAST majority see it in way that bothers no one .


    the mere fact that their religion can be legitimately interpreted in the way that is does should ring alarm bells but people are too entrenched and too fearful of their god, their social status within the community or their family to consider that their religion actually isn't the answer to all of life's questions. apostasy in Islam isn't looked on too kindly...
    Ditto any religion under the sun mate. Islam does not have exclusivity on that and one could argue the bible is evermore hypocritical and ridiculous and has been the cause of much more misery to people across the globe.



    as I said, this bloke's family were saved from their homeland and given everything they could desire. yet, despite this, he decided to murder innocents.
    Yep , and they probably knew nothing about his intentions as is the case with many of the people who commit massacres from Colombine to Sandy Hook.

    if you're going to hold us accountable for militant Islamism then you're going to have to consider that Africa is similarly accountable. as is the Philippines, as is Indonesia, as is East Timor, as is everywhere else on the planet that has suffered fatalities at the hands of Islamists. if these attacks were restricted to "The West" then you might have a ghost of a point but, as is stands, your hollow bleating will have to go on in vain because I don't view it with an ounce of credibility since you can't account for the bloodshed of your African brothers and sisters across the past 1000 years and more at their hands.
    Them being African had noting to do with them dying though and for one it is a FACT that Book Haram are being given weapons by the French . Are you really willing to bet that relies conflict in Africa is not enabled by the west? It is the west best interest to have them fighting among themselves whilst they steal natural resources for that continent. They have murdered anyone who has tried to unify that continent to prove that theory. I for one have absolute no trust in any western connection to that land. Their record speaks for itself.


    oh, hang on, so there is somebody more responsible for blowing up children leaving a pop concert than the person who blew up children leaving a pop concert?

    have a word with yourself ffs.
    Well all this terrorist activity that has increased over theist 20 years in alarming numbers stems from somewhere pal. And if you believe it was all part of tehran 1000's of years ago that in the year 2000 they will step up the attack on the west you are on crack!
    There is no doubt in my mind western influence and meddling in the middle eats has put us in this situation today .
    There are those who will say and do whatever they can to ignore this fact ,because it is part of the way they feel it is our "god given right " to invade other because we are Superior and they are primitive in comparison .



    and there it is. the last resort when all other self-loathing fails.

    anything to avoid the elephant in the room. again.
    [/QUOTE]

    The Elephant in the room is on the paragraph above mate.
    That is the sole reason we see out land targeting by the e f@cking nutters!
    And its about time people manned up and handed the that truth .

  3. #433
    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post

    Well this is it in a nutshell though right here. It goes without question we should mourn our dead more than others to some degree ,but where is the balance .There is none 68 blown to pieces on a bus the same day almost and not even a fraction of the attention that a given to that one 8 year old girl.
    You will never in a thousand years understand what that looks like for MY point of view and i'm not even for that region . I'm just another minority that grew up under the impression my life and existence was worth less than a white man. So i fully understand what this would look like to those who are for that region where that bus and it's young occupants were blown to smithereens.
    If you can't see how the myth of equality in the eyes of those who are fighting for it is joke then we will for ever be arguing these points.
    I see that little girl blown up and i have no more sympathy for her than i do for the "counties" kids in Syria, Iraq and Palestine .Maybe you can call me unpatriotic but i really don't look at it like that .I look at it as being an human being whose hearty breaks when any child suffers.
    That one girl getting 10 front pages and the 68 kids getting 1 is a f@cking disgrace to me ,and pretty much indicates the absolute hypocrisy in the press and with lemming=s that lap that sh!t up...........willingly.
    it isn't about equality, it is about relating. there is no chance my daughter will be on a bus in Syria but there is every chance my daughter will attend a pop concert in Britain. one is clearly more relatable than the other.

    however, despite that you do raise a good point. while the British media should not and could not dedicate identical column inches to dead Syrians as they do to dead Brits, there are some interesting reasons to explore why the media wouldn't report heavily on the Syrian bus explosion. that, too, was carried out by Islamists. they are the people fighting against the Assad regime. a regime we oppose but who the US have been actively wanting and trying to topple for years. this is exactly why I oppose any intervention in Syria and, if forced to choose, would side with Assad over the 'rebels' every time.

    what you say is right. we're dealing with an enemy that thinks nothing of killing and maiming kids. whether they be black, brown or white, they're not fussed. a kafir is fair game in whatever stripe they come in. you know what, if our pages did offer the same dedication towards the death of people because of Islamists there wouldn't be much room for anything else. 10,000 since 2010.



    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    Well i wasn't really talking about that bloke in particular i was talking about those that came up through the times i grew up.
    How they have become more militant ,not to the level of terrorists ,but to the level of doing whatever else they have to do to protect the one thing that gave them solace in this country when their backs were against the wall.Because what you will find is that some of their kids who grew up watching their parent bend over backwards to become part of British society only to be ripped off ,spat upon and treated like garbage ,have now become your terrorists.
    again, Islamist terrorism isn't restricted to Great Britain or even Europe. so even if the above were to be wholly true, there is still a massive gap in explaining the rest of them. how do you fill that gap?


    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    All i'm saying is that something just doesn't feel right about this event .It's just a gut feeling . I have no evidence or read into any ridiculous internet conspiracy bullsh!t just looking at the demographic of the victims chosen for this atrocity.
    demographic? you mean white girls? yes, it's not like there are any other examples of Islamists targeting white girls for anything or considering them as either 'easy meat' or inferior in any way is there. this definitely is a unique situation.


    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    As i said if all those who followed said religions were on an equal; footing in society then that would hold water . As it is right now especially in France you are having laugh and asking for trouble .
    we would be ridiculing ideas, not individuals. if people want to persist in perpetuating nonsense ideas and fantasy but took any mocking personally then that is their problem, whatever their age or ethnicity. even more so when it feeds into even more undesirable traits like the mistreatment of women and homosexuals.


    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    I don't know about any of that and the number of muslim followers in the UK adopts such a ridiculous theory.
    Because it has been one of the things in the west indian community since i was a kid that really angered us abut asian folk ,they did everything to try and assimilate into a society that rejected them at every turn . And most of them refused to be roped into the same level as the my community .
    well there are around 3,000 on a watchlist so that number would be a good start. there will, of course, be others not quite caught up in that or keep their true beliefs under wraps. In terms of assimilation, where I grew up there was little to no effort from that community. it doesn't seem to have changed since I left either.


    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    Again , it is a mall minority who would do so. 1.5 billion mate think about.
    Living in peace with nothing to do with terrorism. They take for the book what they want and interpret it the way that suits them obviously. And the majority of them who live in the west do so in harmony with local laws.
    well yes, that is another problem with religion. they take it a la carte to suit their lives. how many catholics use contraception? how many muslims drink alcohol? etc etc

    what is a true muslim? there isn't one. the one who fits into western societal norms are portrayed over here as true muslims. yet the Saudi's will tell you different. The Turks will tell you something else. the Somalians will tell you another way is the true way.

    while it is positive that people choose not to interpret their religious texts in its original context, a more positive thing for me would be if people just used their own personal moral compass to live their lives rather than be guided by the hand picked "words of God" that suit them.


    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    Interesting this right here . Because we could also say the same about British citizens who sit by knowing full well that an invasion of any middle eastern country is solely for oil . Should they be held accountable for that ,because i am sure you for one have said otherwise when i have reasoned that in the past.
    British intelligence just snit that intelligent judging by this case ,because you couldn't find a better example of a person of interest than what i have heard about this bloke . I think THEY should be held accountable ,but i doubt that anyone will pay for dropping this clanger.
    if there is proof that somebody has been behind the killing of innocents for such frivolous purposes then, by all means, punish them. I'm not sure that me reporting Tony Blair to the Met Police will help anything though. there is a very obvious difference if I were to contact the Met about some bloke on the street corner calling for the death of jews and the introduction of Sharia Law on our streets.

    I don't want to slag off our intelligence services as their job is immense. it is literally impossible to track everyone because of the sheer number of people that require monitoring who wish to do us harm. that alone should set alarm bells ringing but people are content to turn a blind eye. that said, I am sure one or two will be clearing their desks this week as there does seem to be quite obvious failings in letting this bloke walk the streets.

    the number of arrests in recent weeks shows they were active in monitoring the threat but obviously this one slipped through the net. probably due to spinning too many plates.



    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    Mate ,lets look at the sequence of events for second . Ever since the west created the taste of Israel there have been terrorist activity for what i have learnt.


    So Islamists never killed or invaded non-muslim lands (or Europe generally seeing as you always want to ignore the horrendous treatment of your brother and sister Africans for some reason) prior to the creation of the state of Israel? are you sure about that?

    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    because enow we have factions of Islamist's fighting over who is best to take on the west
    No, we have Islamists seeking to re-establish an Islamist caliphate and are trying to achieve this through terror - exactly as their prophet did.


    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    that's what it seems like to me anyway. We berated this bulls!t but fail to hold our politicians accountable for the murders on our soil today . All because we have become soft and almost comatose by what we see and read in the press. We have lost all fight because we have been conditioned to .We demonstrated about not entering into the Iraq conflict ,got ignored ,found out years later that WE were right and the politicians admitting they were wrong and we still sit on our hands . So what we will see is this tedious circus go round again and the death of another little girl shocking us out of morning stupor solely for readership and not compassion.
    What do you suggest?

  4. #434
    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    So where are the waves of people reading into this coming into our country ? Because if that were the case there isn't enough boats or planes to accommodate them going by what you are saying .
    Like the bible it is interpreted the way the individual see's it. If one person is mentally imbalanced he will read it one way.
    Ig one bloke's wife left him ,lost his job and kid died in car accident he may see it another way. But the VAST majority see it in way that bothers no one .
    the vast majority of followers see their religion in a way that suits their lifestyle, for sure. that's the point I'm making. the Catholic Church couldn't be more clear on contraception. yet the vast majority of catholics use it because it suits them to use it. are they not true catholics?

    similarly, Islam couldn't be more clear on homosexuality. are gay muslims not true muslims? what about their family and friends who hopefully accept them?

    when you start declaring who is and isn't a true follower of any religion you get on very shaky ground because the only way that goes is with literal interpretations of the texts. fundamentalism basically.

    similarly, when you start questioning the mental capacity of people based on their interpretation, it must surely be unavoidable to then question the mental capacity of any person who considers a human flew to heaven on a winged horse, split the moon in half, rose from the dead, put every species of animal in a giant boat that he built or that some miserable old virgin in Rome has a direct communication with an omnipotent overlord who watches you as you sleep.


    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    Ditto any religion under the sun mate. Islam does not have exclusivity on that and one could argue the bible is evermore hypocritical and ridiculous and has been the cause of much more misery to people across the globe.
    religion by its very nature is racked with illogical untruths, hypocrisy and double standards. you're right that it isn't exclusive to Islam.


    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    Yep , and they probably knew nothing about his intentions as is the case with many of the people who commit massacres from Colombine to Sandy Hook.
    maybe, maybe not. it would have been the parents who put them into Islam and so, either way, they shoulder some responsibility. if they want their children to follow the word of God, it might help if they discussed this with their children rather than solely place the teachings in the hands of others.

    Given that religion is supposed to be the biggest thing in the lives of any follower, it strikes me as odd that families do not discuss it together given the huge variants in interpretations around the world.


    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    Them being African had noting to do with them dying though and for one it is a FACT that Book Haram are being given weapons by the French . Are you really willing to bet that relies conflict in Africa is not enabled by the west? It is the west best interest to have them fighting among themselves whilst they steal natural resources for that continent. They have murdered anyone who has tried to unify that continent to prove that theory. I for one have absolute no trust in any western connection to that land. Their record speaks for itself.
    well it did have everything to do with them being African when you consider that religious people are almost exclusively religious through accident of birth. if those Africans had instead been born in Iran then they almost certainly would have been born into an Islamic family and thus spared from the oppressors.

    is it fact that the French are arming Boko Haram? I haven't looked this up at all so have no idea about this. do you have a source please as this interests me.

    again though, whether the West are 'enabling it' or not, there needs to be the intent from the Islamists to begin with. The French could give a tonne of arsenal to the Mormons but do you think they'd then go on to wage a campaign looking to topple the government? you're continuing to completely absolve the perpetrators of blood shed from any blame, choosing instead to focus elsewhere.



    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    Well all this terrorist activity that has increased over theist 20 years in alarming numbers stems from somewhere pal. And if you believe it was all part of tehran 1000's of years ago that in the year 2000 they will step up the attack on the west you are on crack!
    There is no doubt in my mind western influence and meddling in the middle eats has put us in this situation today .
    There are those who will say and do whatever they can to ignore this fact ,because it is part of the way they feel it is our "god given right " to invade other because we are Superior and they are primitive in comparison .
    well the rise of the internet has never made it easier to spread the word of religion. no longer do you need to invade a country or leaflet in a town centre or even own your opinions. you can go online and join forums like this, enter chat rooms, utilise social media and convert, spread opinions, drop in propaganda and so on.

    it has taken Islamic militancy out of the Islamic world and into our own. our involvement in the middle east hasn't helped, and is a convenient reason for many, but it is wrong to suggest it is the root and sole cause. as I've said countless times, the evidence for this is in the numerous attacks all over the world that do not share our history.



    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    The Elephant in the room is on the paragraph above mate.
    That is the sole reason we see out land targeting by the e f@cking nutters!
    And its about time people manned up and handed the that truth .
    once again, this is a global epidemic of terrorism being conducted under the banner of Islamism.

    forget our land. this goes way, way beyond our shores.

  5. #435

  6. #436
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post
    it isn't about equality, it is about relating. there is no chance my daughter will be on a bus in Syria but there is every chance my daughter will attend a pop concert in Britain. one is clearly more relatable than the other.
    All things being EQUAL ,reporting of the Bus massacre may have been up there with the Norwegian massacre mate ,let's not keep pretending here.

    what you say is right. we're dealing with an enemy that thinks nothing of killing and maiming kids. whether they be black, brown or white, they're not fussed. a kafir is fair game in whatever stripe they come in. you know what, if our pages did offer the same dedication towards the death of people because of Islamists there wouldn't be much room for anything else. 10,000 since 2010.
    Maybe our part in the conflicts that gave praise to them has something to do with their decision not to print about it.


    again, Islamist terrorism isn't restricted to Great Britain or even Europe. so even if the above were to be wholly true, there is still a massive gap in explaining the rest of them. how do you fill that gap?
    But how do you jump from a relatively peaceful living people for untold decades all of sudden "sympathizing" if not becoming terrorists in our country ?
    You are then who would haves us believe that that religion breeds terrorist ,yet for the time i have mentioned here there were almost zero . Everything kicked off after Iraq for what i can see. We killed Saddam and we got ISIS ,We killed Gadaffi and North Africa has become a bloodbath . You keep blaming these attacks on the religion and completely absolve you government of all responsibility or at least a much as it deserves.



    demographic? you mean white girls? yes, it's not like there are any other examples of Islamists targeting white girls for anything or considering them as either 'easy meat' or inferior in any way is there. this definitely is a unique situation.
    Well if you can name me another case where this has taken place i'm am all ears .
    To me it just doesn't make any sense to target such a group unless it was just part of upping the level of egregiousness ,which i am not ruling out.


    we would be ridiculing ideas, not individuals. if people want to persist in perpetuating nonsense ideas and fantasy but took any mocking personally then that is their problem, whatever their age or ethnicity. even more so when it feeds into even more undesirable traits like the mistreatment of women and homosexuals.
    But you see this is where we keep running into seeing eye to eye ,because your reality as a person of white bloke and mine as person of colour are completely different . I would never in my life try to say i understand what it is like to live life as white person and there is no way you can tell me how things look through our eyes on daily basis. In that way we are detached completely and that gets for ANY ethnicity living in the west. You live believing that all things are equal and for the most part i would say in the UK it is MORE equal than any other place which have said numerous times before ,but that is not the norm. It may not be more equal in say Sweden or Norway but those countries are not burdened with the History our country has built over hundreds of years and continue to this day . Our country just won't give its;lf a break and keep putting itself and its citizens in harms way ,because it foolishly believes the people/countries they are ruining will remain patient whilst we come to our moral senses.


    well there are around 3,000 on a watchlist so that number would be a good start. there will, of course, be others not quite caught up in that or keep their true beliefs under wraps. In terms of assimilation, where I grew up there was little to no effort from that community. it doesn't seem to have changed since I left either.
    mate ffs! If you have tried to integrate for a long as they have only to be treated like inferior beings at best ,you tend to rely on your own .They were forced into that situation and if you honestly believe otherwise you really don't have as much of a idea about that community as you think. Of course they will tend to try and maintain their identity as a people ,but for a black standpoint growing up it was known throughout our community that they looked like willing sell outs to us .


    well yes, that is another problem with religion. they take it a la carte to suit their lives. how many catholics use contraception? how many muslims drink alcohol? etc etc

    what is a true muslim? there isn't one. the one who fits into western societal norms are portrayed over here as true muslims. yet the Saudi's will tell you different. The Turks will tell you something else. the Somalians will tell you another way is the true way.
    As far as i can see and form what i have been told by many in differing areas ,be it "Black" converts in the US or Indian or Middle eastern blokes that i have worked with at times ,it seems to lean towards the 1.5 billion that do not commit terrorist acts. A peaceful person who is dedicated to scripture in a way that doesn't harm others. That's how the majority of people have come across take what is written in the book.

    while it is positive that people choose not to interpret their religious texts in its original context, a more positive thing for me would be if people just used their own personal moral compass to live their lives rather than be guided by the hand picked "words of God" that suit them.
    In an ideal world that would be my thinking also ,but many people are not strong enough or their conditions just do not allow what may seem as "luxuries".
    I fine example would be the black man after the abolition of slavery in America . Disillusioned by the hypocrisy in this European version of the holy book forced upon them ,a lot of brothers ran to Islam . And in my view a lot of them did so solely because it wasn't WHITE rather than it being an accurate depiction of how life should be run. They saw those that converted clean cut dressed impeccably well fed and with moral structure and though man i need some of that. To them was either that or turn to drugs or worst to survive and some of us just refused to continue along the path set for them by the white establishment. Personally i feel lucky that i have not needed to lean on religion to maintain my sanity.




    if there is proof that somebody has been behind the killing of innocents for such frivolous purposes then, by all means, punish them. I'm not sure that me reporting Tony Blair to the Met Police will help anything though. there is a very obvious difference if I were to contact the Met about some bloke on the street corner calling for the death of jews and the introduction of Sharia Law on our streets.
    All i'm saying is that blokes who think like you probably weren't out there protesting the Decision to Invade ,and maybe the 500,000 or whatever number did protest , would have been 1,000,000 . A number that would be unmanageable by the establishment and the fear of civil unrest by such a number would scare any politician for deciding against the will of the people .


    So Islamists never killed or invaded non-muslim lands (or Europe generally seeing as you always want to ignore the horrendous treatment of your brother and sister Africans for some reason) prior to the creation of the state of Israel? are you sure about that?
    But it is then context of that invasion ,i for one am not ignorant of the history of Islam and its treatment of African's .
    But i think we are dealing with totally different mindset here Muslims have killed African's ,Christian's have killed African's ,Muslims are Killing Muslims and so on and so forth. But ,it is my contention that the west has a KNOWN history of having a completely different mindset of superiority due to race and demeaning anything cultural of any land they invade be it religion or anything else because of it. you only need to look at how many countries Muslims have colonized over theist 300 years in comparison to the west to get my meaning.


    No, we have Islamists seeking to re-establish an Islamist caliphate and are trying to achieve this through terror - exactly as their prophet did.
    Well not for what i have learnt . The Taliban by all accounts just want to rid there region of occupying forces and commit attacks on them within in theory and whereas ISIS want to take the fight to foreign soil. Just for an example . In ISIS we are talking about such a small number ,maybe 300,000 tops spread across the middles East and Africa. There is no way they can win ,but the more we interfere and let Israel get away with what they are doing, the easier it is for them to grow that number .


    What do you suggest?
    Get out of the region completely and the only intervention would have to be firstly through unilateral request and then it has to be accepted by the citizens of our country wither we get involved.

  7. #437
    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    All things being EQUAL ,reporting of the Bus massacre may have been up there with the Norwegian massacre mate ,let's not keep pretending here.
    I don't think you can compare the massacre of people conducting by an individual during peace time as being the equivalent of the murder of civilians during a civil war.

    however, that said, I'd have no problem whatsoever with a newspaper dedicating several pages to the bus killings. in fact, I'd quite like our media to report ceaselessly the killings made around the world in the name of jihad.

    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    Maybe our part in the conflicts that gave praise to them has something to do with their decision not to print about it.
    Almost certainly. they want us to back those toppling Assad. many people genuinely view the 'rebels' as downtrodden farmers, shopkeepers and teachers rather than the rabid islamists they are. reporting the facts of who we're trying to back in this civil war will be a truth bomb too far for many.

    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    But how do you jump from a relatively peaceful living people for untold decades all of sudden "sympathizing" if not becoming terrorists in our country ?
    You are then who would haves us believe that that religion breeds terrorist ,yet for the time i have mentioned here there were almost zero . Everything kicked off after Iraq for what i can see. We killed Saddam and we got ISIS ,We killed Gadaffi and North Africa has become a bloodbath . You keep blaming these attacks on the religion and completely absolve you government of all responsibility or at least a much as it deserves.
    who are the peaceful people for untold decades? Islam has been ruling through terror for almost a millennia. infighting and killing among various strains of Islam has been rife since the religion was formed. that not every individual has been involved is a small mercy for the planet.

    Saddam, like Assad, was a secularist. Gaddafi was also more of a secular leaning leader. they kept the rabid Islamists at bay through power.

    I quite agree we monumentally f*cked up by involving ourselves and playing a role in getting rid of these men. however to say that Islamism was born from what we did is just wrong, it is as simple as that. it was always there, it was just suppressed by powerful Statesmen.

    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    Well if you can name me another case where this has taken place i'm am all ears .
    To me it just doesn't make any sense to target such a group unless it was just part of upping the level of egregiousness ,which i am not ruling out.
    what? you want me to name a case where white women and children are targeted?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochda...sex_abuse_ring
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rother...tation_scandal
    etc etc

    if you mean general attacks on children then Manchester was far from unusual. a couple of examples:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_siege
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_P...chool_massacre
    etc etc


    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    But you see this is where we keep running into seeing eye to eye ,because your reality as a person of white bloke and mine as person of colour are completely different . I would never in my life try to say i understand what it is like to live life as white person and there is no way you can tell me how things look through our eyes on daily basis.
    I don't care. religion is colour/race blind and so trying to turn this into a 'person of colour' issue is pointless.


    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    mate ffs! If you have tried to integrate for a long as they have only to be treated like inferior beings at best ,you tend to rely on your own .They were forced into that situation and if you honestly believe otherwise you really don't have as much of a idea about that community as you think. Of course they will tend to try and maintain their identity as a people ,but for a black standpoint growing up it was known throughout our community that they looked like willing sell outs to us .
    so why aren't black people, Sikhs, hindus, far eastern, eastern Europeans and any other group you can name going around blowing sh*t up? why is it only the Islamists that are somehow driven to murderous, hateful behaviour?

    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    As far as i can see and form what i have been told by many in differing areas ,be it "Black" converts in the US or Indian or Middle eastern blokes that i have worked with at times ,it seems to lean towards the 1.5 billion that do not commit terrorist acts. A peaceful person who is dedicated to scripture in a way that doesn't harm others. That's how the majority of people have come across take what is written in the book.
    the nonsense of that statement is that there are people in the UK not willing to blow me up but vehemently oppose homosexuals, consider me a filthy kafir, think I should be punished by death if I were to mock the Prophet, think aspostates should similarly be punished by death, think Sharia Law should be implemented in all its forms and that the word of a man is stronger than that of several women in cases of law. all of that is backed by scripture.

    there will be others that agree that I (or any other muslim) can say, think, f*ck and do as we please. that, generally, isn't backed by scripture.

    yet the latter is the one we pretend is the 'true Islam' because it suits our sensibilities. its 'head up arse' syndrome.


    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    In an ideal world that would be my thinking also ,but many people are not strong enough or their conditions just do not allow what may seem as "luxuries".
    I fine example would be the black man after the abolition of slavery in America . Disillusioned by the hypocrisy in this European version of the holy book forced upon them ,a lot of brothers ran to Islam . And in my view a lot of them did so solely because it wasn't WHITE rather than it being an accurate depiction of how life should be run. They saw those that converted clean cut dressed impeccably well fed and with moral structure and though man i need some of that. To them was either that or turn to drugs or worst to survive and some of us just refused to continue along the path set for them by the white establishment. Personally i feel lucky that i have not needed to lean on religion to maintain my sanity.
    thankfully the world has moved on considerably since those dark days though. if your solution in any situation is 'religion' then you're asking yourself the wrong question.

    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    All i'm saying is that blokes who think like you probably weren't out there protesting the Decision to Invade ,and maybe the 500,000 or whatever number did protest , would have been 1,000,000 . A number that would be unmanageable by the establishment and the fear of civil unrest by such a number would scare any politician for deciding against the will of the people .
    for sure I wasn't out there protesting. I find it to be a largely self-indulgent act by people more interested in being 'seen' to do something rather than actually doing something. some of the behaviour and intellect of many people on so many marches and protests that I've seen has been beyond parody - that obviously isn't exclusively the case but has been more often than not.

    regarding the will of the people, we still have politicians trying to reverse the Brexit process that was voted for by 17.4m people.

    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    But it is then context of that invasion ,i for one am not ignorant of the history of Islam and its treatment of African's .
    But i think we are dealing with totally different mindset here Muslims have killed African's ,Christian's have killed African's ,Muslims are Killing Muslims and so on and so forth. But ,it is my contention that the west has a KNOWN history of having a completely different mindset of superiority due to race and demeaning anything cultural of any land they invade be it religion or anything else because of it. you only need to look at how many countries Muslims have colonized over theist 300 years in comparison to the west to get my meaning.
    Islamists operate on a similar level of superiority. how can they not be, they are carrying out the Will of God? similarly, they have a history of not just demeaning but systematically destroying cultural landmarks of national significance.

    Muslims have colonised enough of the planet to have 1.5bn followers as you keep pointing out. lets not forget this religion was born long after the other two major monotheistic religions that spawned from that same part of the world which gives you some indication of its successful expansionism.

    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    Well not for what i have learnt . The Taliban by all accounts just want to rid there region of occupying forces and commit attacks on them within in theory and whereas ISIS want to take the fight to foreign soil. Just for an example . In ISIS we are talking about such a small number ,maybe 300,000 tops spread across the middles East and Africa. There is no way they can win ,but the more we interfere and let Israel get away with what they are doing, the easier it is for them to grow that number .
    ISIS want to establish an Islamic caliphate. the clue is in their name.

    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    Get out of the region completely and the only intervention would have to be firstly through unilateral request and then it has to be accepted by the citizens of our country wither we get involved.
    I've asked elsewhere but do you genuinely think if we did so that the attacks on us would stop?

    incidentally I'd happily favour no intervention whatsoever and under no circumstances whatsoever for a complete 25 years. sign a declaration. let them get on with it.

  8. #438
    [QUOTE=Steely;1386729]

    Almost certainly. they want us to back those toppling Assad. many people genuinely view the 'rebels' as downtrodden farmers, shopkeepers and teachers rather than the rabid islamists they are. reporting the facts of who we're trying to back in this civil war will be a truth bomb too far for many.
    My point exactly.


    who are the peaceful people for untold decades? Islam has been ruling through terror for almost a millennia. infighting and killing among various strains of Islam has been rife since the religion was formed. that not every individual has been involved is a small mercy for the planet.
    Those that have lived in the UK mate!

    Saddam, like Assad, was a secularist. Gaddafi was also more of a secular leaning leader. they kept the rabid Islamists at bay through power.
    Yeah and that's got nothing to do with us.

    I quite agree we monumentally f*cked up by involving ourselves and playing a role in getting rid of these men. however to say that Islamism was born from what we did is just wrong, it is as simple as that. it was always there, it was just suppressed by powerful Statesmen.
    I didn't say that , i was saying that Terror attacks on US are the result of our nefarious dealings in that region by toppling democratically elected officials , robbing the Iraq of historical artifacts like some crazed looter, raping women and children , using depleted uranium on citizens and so on.

    what? you want me to name a case where white women and children are targeted?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochda...sex_abuse_ring
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rother...tation_scandal
    etc etc

    I was talking about BLOWING THEM UP ,what you are linking me to here is what had been common behavior amongst the natives of our country for centuries.

    if you mean general attacks on children then Manchester was far from unusual. a couple of examples:

    Neither of these attacks took place on our soil.
    You are completely getting my point wrong. We are talking about attacks ON OUR SOIL.



    I don't care. religion is colour/race blind and so trying to turn this into a 'person of colour' issue is pointless.
    Well this is why you will always fail to understand the main issue here.
    You can point to a religious ideology being the reason and i am starting to think doing so is just reluctance to face the actual truth like it will go away.
    The fact is people for the west in general and the establishments in particular do not look upon darker cultures as equals. They haven't done any time in history that i can find and you ONLY need to look at the History of colonialism ,what was done to acquire land and what was done when the indigenous people politely refused our ways. You just can't get away for it mate and the sooner you realize the better you'll be bale to understand where we are right now . If it were just about Religion and race had no part in it i would be a much happier man i can tell you that. I wish that were the case with every fibre of my being ,but it's not.


    so why aren't black people, Sikhs, hindus, far eastern, eastern Europeans and any other group you can name going around blowing sh*t up? why is it only the Islamists that are somehow driven to murderous, hateful behaviour?
    Well for a start yo are dealing with a different mentality in regards to black people ,because i for one wish they would have blown shit up when we were going through the worst of our persecution . I think in places like south Africa things like that were taking place if not in the works to. In America we never had the means like people have today. And you really have to look at who has bee in conflict with who . for example eastern Europeans were not part of the same issue in regards to the west because of tour racial make up. As for the rest you can look at what their actual experience was and if it mirrors what is happening in the middle east insect 1945.


    the nonsense of that statement is that there are people in the UK not willing to blow me up but vehemently oppose homosexuals, consider me a filthy kafir, think I should be punished by death if I were to mock the Prophet, think aspostates should similarly be punished by death, think Sharia Law should be implemented in all its forms and that the word of a man is stronger than that of several women in cases of law. all of that is backed by scripture.
    Yes those people exist but are the a majority ? You would have us believe they are in your quest to demonize there faith. I can tell you one thing those people never existed when i was growing up in the UK and those that were here in those times will be looking at those who believe such garbage with contempt because it will only disrupt their peaceful lives they have worked their lives to obtain.

    there will be others that agree that I (or any other muslim) can say, think, f*ck and do as we please. that, generally, isn't backed by scripture.
    yet the latter is the one we pretend is the 'true Islam' because it suits our sensibilities. its 'head up arse' syndrome.
    When it comes to "head up the arse" syndrome you can look at England and its inhabitants as the number one in that category from where i stand . Because we all want to admire and be proud of how great our country is ,but don't want to face the FACTS of how we got there. Where would England be without the black blood that covers there hands ? Where would it be without the exploitation of Africa for it's resources ? and theist goes on.


    thankfully the world has moved on considerably since those dark days though. if your solution in any situation is 'religion' then you're asking yourself the wrong question.
    But has it really ?
    I thought so ,when i moved to America only to find out that it never went away ,it just morphed with the times and attitudes and realization of most sane thinking people . But the establishment of most of the wrong doers centuries ago haven;t changed one bit and then middle east and Africa today are fine examples off that.
    Those two places are the main points of issue coincidentally because they have the natural resources the west crave . Not Asia or south or not America or Europe ,but Africa and Asia. Wake up Man!

  9. #439
    for sure I wasn't out there protesting. I find it to be a largely self-indulgent act by people more interested in being 'seen' to do something rather than actually doing something. some of the behaviour and intellect of many people on so many marches and protests that I've seen has been beyond parody - that obviously isn't exclusively the case but has been more often than not.
    But if you are out there with actually passion and outing those pretenders for what they are it might make difference .But those who do so for pretentious reason shroud never alter your stance.

    regarding the will of the people, we still have politicians trying to reverse the Brexit process that was voted for by 17.4m people.
    Yep ,and you know what? I was thinking about this the other day. If the Brexit thing was not seen to be fixed and they do try and reverse it , i would want those that voted for it to go out on the streets and make it known in whatever way the deem fit that they are not having it.


    Islamists operate on a similar level of superiority. how can they not be, they are carrying out the Will of God? similarly, they have a history of not just demeaning but systematically destroying cultural landmarks of national significance.
    That's what is written in the news. But i find it a massive difference between people of that region doing that to their own and a bunch of US and UK squaddies doing the same thing .You'll have hard job trying to convince me they are of the same mindset.

    Muslims have colonised enough of the planet to have 1.5bn followers as you keep pointing out. lets not forget this religion was born long after the other two major monotheistic religions that spawned from that same part of the world which gives you some indication of its successful expansionism.
    Do they really have 1.5 billion followers through colonization? LOL!
    So you don't think people like Ribery converted because he was colonized ? He''s white ffs! Or how about robin Van Persie ? Or Danny Blum?
    I think you may need to rethink that mate. Do you think those guys are anti gay or want to the things you say these extremists want .I would say they follow the lines of a person such as Malcolm X who was astounded to find out how slam had absolutely no colour barriers and how VERY man at Mecca black white and brown were looked upon as genuine brothers . THAT my friend is the majority not those crazed psychopaths that get the attention as a tool of the trade and tested strategy of divide and conquer the west created. Before he ventured to Mecca Malcolm x was actually taking more long the lines of kill whitey fueled by the most horrific treatment of his people in America.


    ISIS want to establish an Islamic caliphate. the clue is in their name.
    Yes i get that . But before ISIS we were and stiller fighting the Taliban that wanted nothing more than taking back control of their won land for occupying forces of the west. So we paint this picture and they change all the time .


    I've asked elsewhere but do you genuinely think if we did so that the attacks on us would stop?
    And i have answered it .
    Eventually once it is seen as a legitimate attempt by the west ,yes.


    incidentally I'd happily favour no intervention whatsoever and under no circumstances whatsoever for a complete 25 years. sign a declaration. let them get on with it.
    [/QUOTE]

    And i have said my piece on that also .

  10. #440
    Looks like 2 or maybe 3 terrorist attacks have taken place in London

    A van is reported to have driven into people on London Bridge and in
    another incident people are being attacked by men with knives in Borough Market.
    Gun shots have been fired by police.

    Also something going on in Vauxhall.

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