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Thread: The Big EU Referendum/Politics Thread

  1. #401
    Meanwhile Austria have voted in the youngest head of state at 31 years old.

    the media are stating that the country is empowering the "Far Right". again though I have no idea on the veracity of these claims or the credentials of the alleged "Far Right" in that region.

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post
    Isn't that Raul's point though, they couldn't embrace it because it is illegal?
    As ive said before, Referendums don't have to be legally binding. The Spanish government went out of their way to disrupt the voting so as to make the result disputed. if they were so sure it would not be a Yes vote then they should have supported it. In the event of a Yes vote then they could disregard it as illegal. Surely that would be better than the violence?.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post
    never underestimate the sheer willpower of politicians to bow down to corporate entities. if there is a way to stop it, they will do so. I have no doubt about that. the question is which individuals in power would put their name to it
    If there is no deal, which seems to be the result that the EU want, then it would not even get a vote in Parliament so we would be exiting the EU without a deal anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post
    Meanwhile Austria have voted in the youngest head of state at 31 years old.

    the media are stating that the country is empowering the "Far Right". again though I have no idea on the veracity of these claims or the credentials of the alleged "Far Right" in that region.
    All that I know about it is that the new leader wants tougher immigration controls which the 'Far Right' party has claimed to be their policy for many years. It seems as if they will form a coalition.

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post
    The two of them have been in bed together for years mate
    But what have they or some other company made to have persuaded politicians to be against brexit? It would probably make sense for a company like Uber but for big companies like Google and Amazon etc it would be much better in the long run to work in an environment where EU doesn't exist. Not that companies usually think further than next few years profits but still.

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
    As ive said before, Referendums don't have to be legally binding. The Spanish government went out of their way to disrupt the voting so as to make the result disputed. if they were so sure it would not be a Yes vote then they should have supported it. In the event of a Yes vote then they could disregard it as illegal. Surely that would be better than the violence?.
    Maybe I've got it wrong but doesn't the Spanish constitution forbid referendums of this nature? wasn't that what Raul was saying? therefore 'legally binding' or not, if it is illegal then the State simply can not support it or in any way enable it.

    of course their behaviour was disgusting and the violence completely disproportionate but on the other hand turning a blind eye to mass illegality is the road to anarchy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
    If there is no deal, which seems to be the result that the EU want, then it would not even get a vote in Parliament so we would be exiting the EU without a deal anyway.
    I'm fairly sure there are a lot of UK politicians that want it to go that way too. sabotage the process in order to justify staying in. I don't trust a single one of them to even tell me the correct time of day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
    All that I know about it is that the new leader wants tougher immigration controls which the 'Far Right' party has claimed to be their policy for many years. It seems as if they will form a coalition.
    and, once again, it is a reaction to thousands, if not millions, of ordinary people not being respected or heard on this matter. ordinary people are the ones who bear the brunt of mass immigration through a squeeze on housing, schools, healthcare and various other matters but they're consistently shouted down as racists by the people that bear no burden whatsoever. who can blame them if they turn to a more sympathetic ear when that single issue policy becomes all encompassing?

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by IamMelGibson View Post
    But what have they or some other company made to have persuaded politicians to be against brexit? It would probably make sense for a company like Uber but for big companies like Google and Amazon etc it would be much better in the long run to work in an environment where EU doesn't exist. Not that companies usually think further than next few years profits but still.
    that's not quite how it works.

    as we know, Uber rely on a workforce of migrants. Uber's customers are mostly millenials. millenials are under represented in general elections but, in pretty much all studies, are found to be mostly in favour of remaining within the EU, as well as being Labour supporters.

    so, when Uber were in trouble and at risk of having their licence taken away in London several years ago they enlisted the help of the British government. the government were hugely in favour of Remain but lacked the support of millenials who, by and large, are more inclined towards Labour.

    So, the Tories get Uber to push referendum publicity materials to their remain-friendly but tory-unfriendly customer base and the Tories grease the wheels for Uber to continue operating in London.

    there is nothing that will sit as a smoking gun to indicate lobbying, things work more subtle than that. but the above is one specific example of where the tentacles reach.

  6. #406
    There's no problem in doing a referendum here (as it happened in 2014) if it's not binding, however it's ilegal that you declare independence unilaterally, even more with just a 51% of votes for YES no matter the attendance of that referendum.

    One thing is to make a referendum, to know people's opinion, like it happened in 2014 (only 2 million voted over a voting population of 5.5 million), and something very different is to declare independence if the result is YES.

    Violence is never the solution, of course. I would have let them vote and then ignore the result. However, all must be said, the violence we saw was the same we see in many demonstrations over the past years against the government, particularly in Madrid. It wasn't anything special.
    But it's good marketing for them to say Spain won't let them vote and hurts them phisically to avoid it. They received a lot of warnings before this happened and still decided to go on. At some point, the government had to stop it and use law.
    Again, violence is not the answer, but indepentism is based on victimism, demagogy and selfishness. They'll always make it look different than it really is.
    Raúl González Over 400 career goals, 3 UCL, 6 La Liga, Top scorer in history of UCL and Spain's national team for a decade, captain of one of the best generations of players in Real Madrid history.

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post
    there is nothing that will sit as a smoking gun to indicate lobbying, things work more subtle than that. but the above is one specific example of where the tentacles reach.
    You were talking about politicians bowing to corporate entities which implies the companies have the politicians shape their policies to be favorable to them. In this case the politicians were already against brexit. Where are the companies that persuade politicians to have pro EU policies?

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Raul View Post
    Again, violence is not the answer, but indepentism is based on victimism, demagogy and selfishness. They'll always make it look different than it really is.
    What does it matter what it's based on?

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by IamMelGibson View Post
    You were talking about politicians bowing to corporate entities which implies the companies have the politicians shape their policies to be favorable to them. In this case the politicians were already against brexit. Where are the companies that persuade politicians to have pro EU policies?
    are you expecting a link to such brazen lobbying? if you're trying to tell me it doesn't happen then you're extremely naïve. subtlety is the name of the game.

    meanwhile Tory councillors have spent the last few nights out in London leafleting houses to get people to sign their petition against the decision to refuse Uber's licence. it should be a national scandal.

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post
    are you expecting a link to such brazen lobbying? if you're trying to tell me it doesn't happen then you're extremely naïve. subtlety is the name of the game.
    I mean what makes you think that if politician has anti brexit views it means he's corrupt?

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