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Thread: The Big EU Referendum/Politics Thread

  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus View Post


    Not surprising when the police are tearing down the polling booths, attacking the voters and confiscating the ballot papers
    They had a referendum 3 years ago. No police. Same quorum. It is easy to talk when you have no idea about facts...
    Anyway, my point was that you can't take results seriously when people have been voting on streets, when it's been proved people have voted up to 4 times and when people who were not living in Catalonia were also able to vote. Ridiculous.



    Disagree strongly here. Should the next Scottish Independence referendum be opened up to the people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland?. The next time there is a vote on the soveriegnty of the Falklands, should the Argentinians be allowed to vote?. Even with Brexit people in the other EU states will be affected should every country get a vote on whether the UK leaves?!.
    Again, you are comparing two different things. Catalonia has never been a country, unlike Scotland. Catalonia used to belong to the Aragon Kingdom. Even in Catalonia there are regions (like Vall D'Aran) who have already said they would ask for a referendum of self determination if Catalonia gets the independence. So, shall they approve it?
    Why would catalans have the right to vote and not the rest of the people? You should judge a country for its rules, not for what happens anywhere else. And these rules were legally voted 40 years ago, it is fair that we respect them or change them LEGALLY.
    Raúl González Over 400 career goals, 3 UCL, 6 La Liga, Top scorer in history of UCL and Spain's national team for a decade, captain of one of the best generations of players in Real Madrid history.

  2. #262
    That's my point exactly, Steely
    Also, NY Times is pretty accurate in their article: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/o...dum-spain.html

    I've seen tons of videos of the police last sunday and there are a few conclussions you can easily take from them:

    - Violence solves nothing. Only generates more hate.
    - They are making the independentist govern of Catalonia look reasonable, even if they are far from that
    - Not all the cops are the same. Some of them were discussing peacefully, trying to protect kids and old people, while others were just hitting everything that moved. There's a video of a cop hitting his own colleague because he thought it was someone else.
    - Some independentists were simulating injuries, just like Busquets or Luis Suarez. There are several videos of people falling to the floor when nobody touched them But, there's no point on talking about that when you have hundreds of videos of cops hitting civils.

    We need elections in Spain. Some fresh party that's able to use dialogue and set the limits with no violence, just ideas.
    Raúl González Over 400 career goals, 3 UCL, 6 La Liga, Top scorer in history of UCL and Spain's national team for a decade, captain of one of the best generations of players in Real Madrid history.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Raul View Post
    They had a referendum 3 years ago. No police. Same quorum. It is easy to talk when you have no idea about facts...
    and that justifies police brutality how exactly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raul View Post
    my point was that you can't take results seriously when people have been voting on streets, when it's been proved people have voted up to 4 times and when people who were not living in Catalonia were also able to vote. Ridiculous..
    I agree that the result cannot be taken seriously. The Government should have facilitated this referendum and brought in overseas election officials to check for any wrongdoing on either side. If they were confident of a No vote then what have they to fear?. If it was a Yes vote then they just say it wasn't a legally binding poll so nothing changes. Smashing polling stations and beating people is really not necessary!.

    I have no particular view on Catalonian Independence but I believe in the right for people to chose how they are governed. I understand that it is not legal and the Spanish government would not support this but what is wrong with people using the democratic system of voting in and unofficial Independence referendum to let the government know how they feel?. The people of Catalonia have a right to self govern if they wish.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post
    Thanks. so it is effectively a protest vote as I'd wager that most people who voted don't actually want those things but have no option other than to vote that way to get people like Merkel to even consider implementing a tougher stance on immigration.
    Pretty much. Like I said earlier, if Merkel took a tougher stance then the threat from the right wing would disappear like UKIP.

  5. #265
    Yeah, but I agree with that Steely. I would have an independent London, Liverpool, Newcastle, Cornwall...Manchester etc. The more power taken away from the establishment the better off we'll be. We are already divided, most probably more so these days than we've ever been. We almost need to go back to when we had butchers, farms and small groceries in our own communities instead of the hierarchical systems like Tesco who boast first half profits of £536m that will never filter back into it employees.

    I'd support an independent Cornwall, London, Manchester, Liverpool etc for the same reasons as coming out of the EU.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Pokers View Post
    Yeah, but I agree with that Steely. I would have an independent London, Liverpool, Newcastle, Cornwall...Manchester etc. The more power taken away from the establishment the better off we'll be. We are already divided, most probably more so these days than we've ever been. We almost need to go back to when we had butchers, farms and small groceries in our own communities instead of the hierarchical systems like Tesco who boast first half profits of £536m that will never filter back into it employees.

    I'd support an independent Cornwall, London, Manchester, Liverpool etc for the same reasons as coming out of the EU.
    I don't know if your thinking of some amish community style of living and how that would work but countries leaving the EU just gives more power to the big companies and worsens the conditions of workers. One of the first negotiation tactics that was voiced after the brexit vote was that Britain can stay preferable place for companies by lowering taxes. Without EU this would happen in every country. If it didn't exist already something similar should be arranged if Europe wants to survive and keep their way of life I feel.

  7. #267
    That seems more the case of a politician lobbying Uber than the other way around.

  8. #268
    Theresa May's speech yesterday at Tory conference was a disaster.

    Get ready everyone for Jeremy Corbyn to take over as PM very soon.

  9. #269
    Government in waiting Hams mate.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Pokers View Post
    Government in waiting Hams mate.
    I will wish you all good luck with that Communist in charge and go back to Spain.

    (If Spain as a nation is still exists as it will break up if Catalonia is allowed to leave)

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