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Thread: The Big EU Referendum/Politics Thread

  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post
    Thanks. so it is effectively a protest vote as I'd wager that most people who voted don't actually want those things but have no option other than to vote that way to get people like Merkel to even consider implementing a tougher stance on immigration.
    Pretty much. Like I said earlier, if Merkel took a tougher stance then the threat from the right wing would disappear like UKIP.

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
    Pretty much. Like I said earlier, if Merkel took a tougher stance then the threat from the right wing would disappear like UKIP.
    it would be interesting. would she lose support for failing to stick to her supposed principles and therefore counteract any voters that go her way due to this shift?

    similarly, could she retain any shred of credibility on a u-turn over something she has been so adamant about?

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
    I have no particular view on Catalonian Independence but I believe in the right for people to chose how they are governed. I understand that it is not legal and the Spanish government would not support this but what is wrong with people using the democratic system of voting in and unofficial Independence referendum to let the government know how they feel?. The people of Catalonia have a right to self govern if they wish.
    That's where I get conflicted and sort of see both sides to this.

    the constitution has to be respected, otherwise anarchy reigns. however it can't mean that any independence is an impossibility and so Raul is right to say that legal and political avenues need to be explored rather than this backwards way of forcing it through as that will only lead to contempt, animosity and violence.

    I guess, rather than talk about Scotland, a more relevant comparison is Cornwall. and then where do you draw the line? some twats after Brexit where calling for London to go 'independent'. its yet more division.

  4. #384
    Yeah, but I agree with that Steely. I would have an independent London, Liverpool, Newcastle, Cornwall...Manchester etc. The more power taken away from the establishment the better off we'll be. We are already divided, most probably more so these days than we've ever been. We almost need to go back to when we had butchers, farms and small groceries in our own communities instead of the hierarchical systems like Tesco who boast first half profits of 536m that will never filter back into it employees.

    I'd support an independent Cornwall, London, Manchester, Liverpool etc for the same reasons as coming out of the EU.

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by Pokers View Post
    Yeah, but I agree with that Steely. I would have an independent London, Liverpool, Newcastle, Cornwall...Manchester etc. The more power taken away from the establishment the better off we'll be. We are already divided, most probably more so these days than we've ever been. We almost need to go back to when we had butchers, farms and small groceries in our own communities instead of the hierarchical systems like Tesco who boast first half profits of 536m that will never filter back into it employees.

    I'd support an independent Cornwall, London, Manchester, Liverpool etc for the same reasons as coming out of the EU.
    it is one of those things where the theory is infinitely more sound than the practicalities. if you set up a series of "City States" or "principalities" then how are they run? I'll be fine as I live in London and nowhere comes close for self-sufficiency.

    but how would Manchester generate enough economic growth to sustain transport, infrastructure and social developments? nowhere near enough places in the UK are even cost neutral, let alone revenue raising and so it would be doomed to fail. all you would get is people flocking from the more deprived "states" and into the more prosperous which would exacerbate the problem.

    you're right that people should support local businesses and business owners and I've said as much on a number of occasions. all anyone cares about is saving themselves a few quid though.

  6. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by Pokers View Post
    Yeah, but I agree with that Steely. I would have an independent London, Liverpool, Newcastle, Cornwall...Manchester etc. The more power taken away from the establishment the better off we'll be. We are already divided, most probably more so these days than we've ever been. We almost need to go back to when we had butchers, farms and small groceries in our own communities instead of the hierarchical systems like Tesco who boast first half profits of 536m that will never filter back into it employees.

    I'd support an independent Cornwall, London, Manchester, Liverpool etc for the same reasons as coming out of the EU.
    I don't know if your thinking of some amish community style of living and how that would work but countries leaving the EU just gives more power to the big companies and worsens the conditions of workers. One of the first negotiation tactics that was voiced after the brexit vote was that Britain can stay preferable place for companies by lowering taxes. Without EU this would happen in every country. If it didn't exist already something similar should be arranged if Europe wants to survive and keep their way of life I feel.

  7. #387
    That seems more the case of a politician lobbying Uber than the other way around.

  8. #388
    Theresa May's speech yesterday at Tory conference was a disaster.

    Get ready everyone for Jeremy Corbyn to take over as PM very soon.

  9. #389
    Government in waiting Hams mate.

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by Pokers View Post
    Government in waiting Hams mate.
    I will wish you all good luck with that Communist in charge and go back to Spain.

    (If Spain as a nation is still exists as it will break up if Catalonia is allowed to leave)

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