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Thread: Pokers Political Corner

  1. #11

    Re: Pokers Political Corner

    Quote Originally Posted by Hams
    Have you thought about getting involved in local politics Pokers as you clearly have a passion about it and care about the less fortunate in our society?

    Not at all mate. I wouldn't know how to even start, even if I could.

    Picks and Seamus are far more clued up than me and so are a lot of people who understand the current state of the economy.

    Has anything I've highlighted on this thread changed your opinion on the Tories at all? I'm guessing you voted for them?

  2. #12

    Re: Pokers Political Corner

    Has anything I've highlighted on this thread changed your opinion on the Tories at all? I'm guessing you voted for them?
    I abstained at the Mayor of London election but will be voting to leave the EU when we have our referendum on June 24th.
    I respect your political opinions mate as we do live in a democracy after all but still disagree with most of your views on things.

    I will vote for who i think is best to run the country and economy and you might be surprised to hear that i supported Tony Blair
    when he first came on to the scene in 1997 as he is what we needed at the time after poor years under John Major's reign.

    There is no way in hell though that Jeremy Corbyn could ever be PM with his radical left wing policies and see him only a temp
    stop gap until a more moderate politician comes along other wise the Labour party will be in opposition for least next 10 years.
    Surely even you can see that Pokers?

  3. #13

    Re: Pokers Political Corner

    Quote Originally Posted by Hams
    Has anything I've highlighted on this thread changed your opinion on the Tories at all? I'm guessing you voted for them?
    I abstained at the Mayor of London election but will be voting to leave the EU when we have our referendum on June 24th.
    I respect your political opinions mate as we do live in a democracy after all but still disagree with most of your views on things.

    I will vote for who i think is best to run the country and economy and you might be surprised to hear that i supported Tony Blair
    when he first came on to the scene in 1997 as he is what we needed at the time after poor years under John Major's reign.

    There is no way in hell though that Jeremy Corbyn could ever be PM with his radical left wing policies and see him only a temp
    stop gap until a more moderate politician comes along other wise the Labour party will be in opposition for least next 10 years.
    Surely even you can see that Pokers?
    Thing is Hams, I'm probably a really left wing person myself so I'm not the best person to ask.

    Everything Jeremy Corbyn has offered up I've agreed with except to remain in the EU.

    Out of interest, what is it exactly that you are worried about if Corbyn came into power tomorrow?

    One thing is 100% though. This current government cannot be trusted and are serving the few while the many are paying for it.

    I have to think more rationally now, this current lot are a bent bunch who are continually f**king us over.

    Is the alternative worse than this?

  4. #14

    Re: Pokers Political Corner

    I agree with the last point, and forgive my ignorance, but obviously on platform, for someone who leans left like me, Corbyn, on paper, makes a lot of sense. However, Steely, could you elaborate on what makes him weak/hypocritical/etc?

    Also, you mention the Labour year you just had... Seems to be a short sample size/timeline for any real significant change to be applied across the board, no?

    Not trying to be devil's advocate or anything. Just genuinely curious as to what expectations are over there.

    I do agree fully with your last point, Steely. It is similar to what is happening here, where the government is easy to vilify, with vague to non-existent solutions proposed from either side.

  5. #15

    Re: Pokers Political Corner

    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Hill

    sorry, that was a typo - it should have read 'years'. Labour were in power for 13 years, longer than any US President and, i'm sure you'll agree, plenty of time to have stamped their mark. i'm genuninely interested to hear how people's lives were made better between 1997 and 2010, notwithstanding the fact that Poker's new favourite subject, the financial crash, happened smack bang in the middle of that.
    For most of Labour's reign the economy performed very well, which gave the lie to the idea that they cant be trusted with the economy. People were making money, and unemployment was under control. As for the credit crunch, I'm absolutely convinced that it would have happened regardless of the incumbent government at the time. It is true to say we are part of a global economy, the old adage about if America catches a cold is true, politicians are always quick to take credit for economic upturns but the truth is the economy goes in cycles of peaks and troughs, and there is only a limited amount a government can do to influence that. However, Labour demonstrated that they weren't about taxing everyone to the hilt, and burning billions on public expenditure, or nationalising everything that moves, an outdated picture of the Labour Party that owes more to right wing tabloids than it does to reality.

    I was born working class, I've always felt a natural affinity for left wing politics, but in truth that is more down to the ideas of social justice than whether the FT Index is two points up or two points down that makes me a leftie. I'd have no worries about the next Labour government wrecking the economy, that is just propaganda from the Daily Mail!
    He's magic you kno-oow, Mauricio Poch-ett-ino!

  6. #16

    Re: Pokers Political Corner

    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Hill
    Quote Originally Posted by Pokerkings

    Thing is Hams, I'm probably a really left wing person myself so I'm not the best person to ask.

    Everything Jeremy Corbyn has offered up I've agreed with except to remain in the EU.

    Out of interest, what is it exactly that you are worried about if Corbyn came into power tomorrow?

    One thing is 100% though. This current government cannot be trusted and are serving the few while the many are paying for it.

    I have to think more rationally now, this current lot are a bent bunch who are continually f**king us over.

    Is the alternative worse than this?
    the mistake you're making is in your implied belief that the other mob, headed up by your boy Corbyn, are actually any different. the EU thing alone should show you that Corbyn is both a hypocrite and weak - possibly even a liar.

    you then need to thank back to the Labour year we just lived through and ask yourself whether people prospered and whether lives were improved. certainly, if you perhaps had a daughter and lived in Rotherham, Rochdale, Keighley, Telford, Oxford, Bristol and others then you'd be likely to answer that by saying no.

    being the opposition government is the easiest thing in the world. me, you and a few people off the street could do it. when they get into government though they revert to type. be under no illusions.
    Maybe I am being a bit naive to it. I know what you're saying with Corbyn and his 'Remain' going against what he supposedly stands for.

    I read this about about his EU referendum views.



    He wants to remain but wants certain changes. I agree it's quite difficult to take seriously sometimes isn't it?

    I just looked up what you meant by having a daughter in those areas you mentioned.

    Here are the details of those horrific crimes being carried out in those places.



    I had no idea this was going on in our own country. The sad part about this was the Manchester Police hesitated and were scared to act quicker in fear of being branded racists by the Pakistani community.

    The statistics show in London mostly its lone White males who target young white girls, Bristol and Bath and Black Caribbean men and the Midlands and up North actually have groups and Networks working together grooming white girls for child trafficking.

    It's made me feel sick knowing that information. Just awful.

  7. #17

    Re: Pokers Political Corner

    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Hill

    Corbyn has spent his entire political career campaigning on exiting Europe. Now he is Labour leader and in a position of relative power, he has suddenly done a complete u-turn and is not telling us that staying in is best.

    General consensus is that this career campaigner is either pretending to support IN to prevent yet more Labour revolt or has had a miraculous but genuine change of heart, despite not actually providing an explanation for why he has had this sudden change of heart.

    he's presented as a man of conviction but seems to have fallen at the very first hurdle in order to cling onto leadership.
    Hmmm, yes, stinks of more of a political move more than anything. Who are the stakeholders on this? Are the rest of the party pushing to stay? If so, perhaps he is simply complying to the party's position as their leader even though they override his own opinions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Hill

    sorry, that was a typo - it should have read 'years'. Labour were in power for 13 years, longer than any US President and, i'm sure you'll agree, plenty of time to have stamped their mark. i'm genuninely interested to hear how people's lives were made better between 1997 and 2010, notwithstanding the fact that Poker's new favourite subject, the financial crash, happened smack bang in the middle of that.
    Okay, 13 years definitely makes alot more sense . Pokers, any chiming in on this? Or others who lived through it? Were you significantly better off then than now? Or even if you are better off now, has the trend been an upswing rather than a rescue mission? The global financial crash is tough to pinpoint on a single party. Even here, it's tough to point the finger solely on Bush as Clinton was in charge when the bubble burst in 99. The Bush presidency certainly compounded the misery which boiled over under Obama. Again, I can't say I'm versed enough to have an opinion either way under your context.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Hill

    personally speaking, i have no expectations. none of them work for me and none of them actually help me prosper. it just baffles me that people portray Labour as some sort of social saviours.
    That's fair enough, and I think that's always just been the reaction to any problem. Someone comes in with a strong platform and they are seen as the answers to the problem (built up expectations), and when they fail to deliver, even though people are slightly better off, then the backlash happens and the opposite end of the political spectrum takes over.

  8. #18

    Re: Pokers Political Corner

    Quote Originally Posted by mrtz
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Hill

    Corbyn has spent his entire political career campaigning on exiting Europe. Now he is Labour leader and in a position of relative power, he has suddenly done a complete u-turn and is not telling us that staying in is best.

    General consensus is that this career campaigner is either pretending to support IN to prevent yet more Labour revolt or has had a miraculous but genuine change of heart, despite not actually providing an explanation for why he has had this sudden change of heart.

    he's presented as a man of conviction but seems to have fallen at the very first hurdle in order to cling onto leadership.
    Hmmm, yes, stinks of more of a political move more than anything. Who are the stakeholders on this? Are the rest of the party pushing to stay? If so, perhaps he is simply complying to the party's position as their leader even though they override his own opinions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Hill

    sorry, that was a typo - it should have read 'years'. Labour were in power for 13 years, longer than any US President and, i'm sure you'll agree, plenty of time to have stamped their mark. i'm genuninely interested to hear how people's lives were made better between 1997 and 2010, notwithstanding the fact that Poker's new favourite subject, the financial crash, happened smack bang in the middle of that.
    Okay, 13 years definitely makes alot more sense . Pokers, any chiming in on this? Or others who lived through it? Were you significantly better off then than now? Or even if you are better off now, has the trend been an upswing rather than a rescue mission? The global financial crash is tough to pinpoint on a single party. Even here, it's tough to point the finger solely on Bush as Clinton was in charge when the bubble burst in 99. The Bush presidency certainly compounded the misery which boiled over under Obama. Again, I can't say I'm versed enough to have an opinion either way under your context.

    .
    We were most certainly better off under Labour and had better times financially I'd say, but that was while they were getting us into a load of mess.

    Currently, from what I understand the banks hold the government to ransom. If the government here try to regulate them or send them to jail for their criminal activities then the banks simply threaten to crash the market, so the Tories have a adopted "if you can't beat them, join them" attitude. That's how I see it.

    I'm not sure if Labour under Corbyn are definitely the answer, for me they're certainly making the right noises but then again the opposition always do...under they get into power and then it's the same old bollox again.

    I do have a belief in Corbyn and I certainly think he'll be better than the current mugs we have at the moment.

  9. #19

    Re: Pokers Political Corner

    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Hill
    personally speaking, i have no expectations. none of them work for me and none of them actually help me prosper. it just baffles me that people portray Labour as some sort of social saviours.
    Its all down to your personal experience. I can say I definatley benefited from Labour getting in in 1997 as i was on a really shitty wage - when they introduced the National Minimum Wage it was a huge help.

  10. #20

    Re: Pokers Political Corner

    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Hill
    Quote Originally Posted by Pickleman1967
    People were making money, and unemployment was under control.
    wasn't unemployment higher when Labour left office than it was when they took over?

    in terms of the banking stuff, what was stopping them regulating the bankers, pursuing and closing tax loopholes and encouraging/forcing responsible lending?
    True, but unemployment was higher after the Thatcher/Major administration as well. The point I was really making was that Labour are not "looney lefties" destined to crash the economy and send unemployment spiralling out of control in order to achieve their idealogical goals in office, that is a dumb tabloid myth that too many lap up.
    It is true that they could have done more to put greater regulation in place in our country, though that would not have made much of a dent on the global collapse. Know this much, the Tories will always favour "deregulation" in the business world, in order to "facillitate wealth generation" (and ensure the rich Ruperts get richer) so if anything the situation would have been worse if they were in office.
    He's magic you kno-oow, Mauricio Poch-ett-ino!

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