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Thread: SF-Portugal v Wales-6th July-Kick Off-8pm

  1. #11

    Re: SF-Portugal v Wales-6th July-Kick Off-8pm

    Quote Originally Posted by specnur
    Probably the worst performance by Bale i have ever seen. Absolutely shocking!
    Well done though Wales ,if Ramsey;'s there Wales win.
    Bit harsh. He had a decent first half and not great but not the worst second. Ya they definitely missed Ramsey. Alan had too much to do and no one to pass to in the tight spaces. If Ramsey had played he would have showed for the ball and carried it more than the other players out there

  2. #12

    Re: SF-Portugal v Wales-6th July-Kick Off-8pm

    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Hill

    No chance. every Englishman would have been very happy* with a semi final loss. that would have exceeded the expectations of at least 90% of our fans.

    *happy in the sense of getting that far, not losing obviously!

    that isn't celebrating failure, it's respecting success. obviously they wouldn't get an open top parade but they would have got respect in the same way the Euro 96 mob were given respect (Southgate aside I suppose at the time).
    Sure about that? If we had swatted away Iceland like everybody expected us to do, the expectation levels would have been raised for game against a Portugal side that hasn't played particularly well throughout the tournament, getting beat by them would have still resulted in the termination of Hodgson's reign I suspect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Hill

    the other british sides go to these tournaments as massive underdogs and there is nothing more galvanising, support wise, than going somewhere as an unfancied side and upsetting the status quo. England are like Spurs/Liverpool in the sense that they have delusions of top tier grandeur but fall short time and time again. it isn't a coincidence that our squad was littered with players from those same sides. ,
    Oh, you rascal, you can't resist a little dig can you? As it happens that is harsh on Liverpool as they have been winning in Europe even if they haven't won a league title for yonks. Delusions of grandeur is correct, but that is as much the fault of the media and fans who expect too much of our players, who can do the business in the PL but get shown up time and again in international competition. In fairness, hopes are often raised by good qualifying campaigns, we need to learn from Germany - iron out the deficiencies in qualification, get to the tournament with a settled team and a settled system. Hodgson's biggest failing was fannying around with selection and systems when the tournament was in full swing,

    For the record I was disappointed at the way we went out, but I loved every minute we were in. What dismays me is the instant "incompetent", "clueless" accusations that get fired at the manager and the team as soon as we don't beat a team or just "win ugly" against a team. The Welsh, Irish and Scottish fans are always more supportive, and as a result their teams perhaps feel a little less burden of pressure. Just saying.
    He's magic you kno-oow, Mauricio Poch-ett-ino!

  3. #13

    Re: SF-Portugal v Wales-6th July-Kick Off-8pm

    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Hill

    If we'd overcome Iceland we would have come up against France mate ,
    Oh yeah, but there again I've never claimed to be anything but an England fan. When we go out my interest wanes, a bit like hearing what went on in a party after you'd gone home.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Hill
    I think most rational people would have reluctantly accepted a defeat against the hosts provided we'd given it a proper go. Hodgson may well have still gone (and I'd have backed his sacking without question) but I doubt he would have walked and it certainly would have been a more split decision. however, had we conquered Iceland and then France to get to the semi final and then crashed out against the Germans I think Roy would have been given a 10 year contract to continue his 'fine work'.
    Sure, France would be a hard game for England, as difficult as a game against our old nemesis Germany, "heroic defeat" against either team would probably have kept Roy in a job, perhaps justifiably because you have to be honest about 50 years of failure in major tournaments. It has been a long time since I saw England "give it a go" in a tournament, WC 1990 to be precise, makes me feel old mate as if I needed a reminder! I agree that Hodgson had to go, there is giving a bloke the benefit of the doubt and then there is charity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Hill
    Do our players 'do the business' in the premier league though? of our usual starting eleven, only Kane and Alli could really be considered to have had an excellent season. ironically those two were among the biggest stinkers in the tournament. England do not play a 'PL style' pf play. we are slow, 'patient' and favour safe passing over the more gung-ho possession relinquishing style that you often see in the premier league. athleticism, brawn and power reigns supreme in that league over technical, intricate play. however we switch to this odd, confused style of play involving relentless and aimless passing about with barely any running at players.

    people expect too much of our players because they are delusional about their capabilities. their reputation exceeds their ability and productivity which excludes other players with lesser reputations who could bring something new and different to the team. its the same conversation we had pre-tournament. read what people were saying about Wilshere from his call up all the way through to his first appearance at the tournament. then watch him carefully as he played. impossible to believe it is the same player.

    read the reports about Rooney 'dictating play' and how effective he is then actually watch him in action compared to players that properly dictate play, Modric, Kroos etc. the contrast is staggering.

    again, hopes are raised through the delusion that qualification campaigns have any relevance to actual tournament play.
    Yep, a big discussion piece there - is it the number of foreign players in our league, should we have a winter break, are we simply hyping up English players too much because they are actually good enough to play alongside players in a team largely composed of "foreigners" even if it is as a squad player? Should we have a cap on the number or foreign players per team? Is the academy system a big white elephant producing second tier players demanding first tier money? Despite what armchair managers might say, there aren't any easy answers - the England teams of the 1970s and the 1980s were from an era where pasty faced Englishmen made up the bulk of the top tier teams, and we were still shit.
    Maybe we do need to bite the bullet about a winter break, as it isn't just English PL players who have failed to shine in this tournament, I can't recall many "foreign" PL players who made an impact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Hill
    a bit of an exaggeration, I think. as it happens, I think both Hodgson and Capello have got off very lightly indeed after such disastrous efforts. Hodgson had incredible and undeserved support in the main despite the evidence before us highlighting our obvious faults that were apparent the moment he named a 26 man squad featuring some of the players it did.
    In defence of Hodgson, I suppose I thought he might do a job with England as he had done a job with Finland and Switzerland in terms of getting them to a place they hadn't been before, don't look at the club record too much as it is a different kettle of fish when it comes to international football etc. Capello though was supposed to be a "genius", an investment rather than a punt. F*ck me, ask Russia about that old fraud. I think my point still stands, we are far more prone to jumping down the manager's throat when we lose than the Welsh, Scottish or the Irish. Like I've said elsewhere get Nigel Pierson in, whatever happens at least it'll be entertaining!
    He's magic you kno-oow, Mauricio Poch-ett-ino!

  4. #14

    Re: SF-Portugal v Wales-6th July-Kick Off-8pm

    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Hill

    What do you think our clubs would do with a winter break? they'd fly half way round the world for some bullsh*t money making tournament. besides, I've never bought the Winter break argument anyway. our season ends in May and the tournament starts in June. that's almost a full calendar month between competitive fixtures, isn't that enough rest? how would having a rest in December or January help? wouldn't it just increase fixture scheduling at the second half of the season that would then lead to more fatigue? that Xmas/New Year schedule we'd lose would need to be played at some point.
    Fair point, though most European leagues do take a winter break, we are among the small minority that don't - according to this England, Wales, Scotland, N.Ireland and Israel are the only ones playing through Christmas. Personally I really enjoy the Christmas fixtures, but if a mid season break helped English players I'd be prepared to sacrifice them. There is always a way around avoiding fixture pile ups, it might mean a complete remodelling of the league and fixture lists but where there's a will there's a way and all that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Hill
    incidentally, the team of the tournament contains three premier league players - something of a rarity actually.
    Ramsey, Payet, and Joe Allen? Joe Allen really didn't play many games last season, fair enough about Ramsey 31 appearances for Arsenal. As for Payet, I didn't actually watch the final but the reports say he didn't play well though I suspect the team of the tournament had been decided before then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Hill
    Capello was a massive, massive let down for me. I had huge hopes for him to completely revamp our national set up and the mentality of it. in actual fact he committed the worst crime of them all by having Beckham join the party as a f*cking cheerleader. I'm pretty certain that was the FA's call, as was the captain interference, but ffs his lack of balls was a major shame and missed opportunity.
    Yeah, but if the rumours are to be believed the players didn't like his "disciplinarian" style either, that might have been more of a factor in why a bunch of millionaires got fed up with not doing whatever they wanted to do, and it might have had a knock on effect in the way they played, dunno, but personally I find that weak. Go without a few luxuries for a few weeks of your life, and just focus on your game. Not too much to ask is it? Whatever the issue was, what transpired on the field of play was every bit as bad as this tournament.
    He's magic you kno-oow, Mauricio Poch-ett-ino!

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