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Thread: 2017 General Election

  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Pickleman1967 View Post
    The seats Labour won from the Tories (where there was a swing) were "Leave" constituencies, so clearly a lot of people unhappy with the idea of a "hard" Brexit.
    do you have a list of the swing states they won?

    I've had a bit of a look but can't find a proper list

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post
    Most Labour constituencies voted to leave. the people voting leave were largely in Labour heartlands and so with UKIP out of the way it was Labour's chance to effectively win them back.

    around 421 of 574 constituencies voted to Leave which shows the overwhelming number of constituencies leaning this way. similarly almost 4m people voted for UKIP in 2015 against 500,000 this time around. Labour could and should have positioned themselves in a position of Leave for the referendum and collected the lot.

    Labour did well to hoover up the disaffected youth but didn't do nearly enough to convince Leavers they were better placed to handle Brexit. In Scotland they made fewer gains than the Conservatives and the joke goes that Cons in Scotland are rarer than hens teeth. There will have been plenty of former SNP voters for the taking, fed up with the IndyRef crap from Sturgeon but Corbyn obviously didn't do enough to convince them.

    the country didn't want Corbyn and they didn't really even want May.
    Well it's kind of cup half empty right there.
    If the country was so for Brexit and most of the Brexiteers used Corbyn's personal stance on voting to stay as a major weapon ,you would have thought he would have got smashed into oblivion this election. But no, he gained a lot more than people give him credit for . I don't think that much more youth voted for him than they did in the election to stay ,so i think its quite obvious he picked up a hell of a lot of people who voted Brexit last time round.
    The Ukip followers jumped ship and went with the party more realistic to win with the same general stance they had ,which was OUT and that was the Cons.
    I could be wrong of course and i have not followed politics in this land as much as most here i am certain of that ,but for the bits and pieces i have gathered in passing it sound like that to me.
    Bristol for example where i have been for a couple of months now wiped the floor with the cons i am proud to say.
    And i think most of the people who voted for Brexit because of immigration/terrorism fears alone woke up to the fact that May was at the helm for all the recent attacks she is supposed to be protecting us from.
    NO doubt there are still a lot of pro exit folk here and i went to get together for an old footy mate who has a severe case of Alzheimer's and there were about 70 blokes there 95% of them pro Brexit and anti Islamist's . So a large segment still does exist ,but got battered here . So proud of my city this election.
    Last edited by specnur; 10-06-2017 at 12:43 PM.

  3. #143

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Hams View Post
    I wouldn't mind if Ruth Davidson became the next Tory leader or even Boris Johnson.
    She doesnt want to be the PM, she wants to be the Defence Secretary. I was also a bit confused about her claim that the election was all about the Independence referndum and that the results show that the people of Scotland dont want another referendum. The SNP won over half the seats in Scotland and remain the biggest party in Scotland so surely that would signal that the people of Scotland are fully behind another referendum!. In truth the reason for the SNPs drop in support is more complicated that just one reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post
    He later told the BBC it was it was "pretty clear who has won this election".

    what is he on about?
    Dianne Abbot has been working the numbers!

    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post
    I'm not sure where Corbyn goes from here. while he did improve the returns of Miliband's Labour, he only achieved a few more seats than Gordon Brown did in 2010 and so it is most unlikely he would be a likely winner in four years time. Labour need to identify the person to take over from Corbyn as soon and as smoothly as possible as that next election is, I think, there's to win.mes.
    He also got more votes and a bigger share of the vote than David Cameron has had in either of his election wins. He has energised the youth in the country to get behind him and has succeeded in totally obliterating a seemingly unassailable Tory lead. The idea that now the momentum is with him and he has achieved what most people thought impossible he should now just quit is quite absurd!. I think the next general election will be much sooner that 4 years as well. Theresa May has no majority and a loose agreement with the DUP, there is no coalition contract in place and even with the DUP support she only has a majority of 2!. No government can last longer than a year like that with every slightly contentious issue being a very possible defeat for the government.

  5. #145
    Rupert Murdoch supported the Tories in England and the SNP in Scotland - It was the Sun what lost it!

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post
    I'm not sure that he has really. I always say that electioneering from the position of opposition is clearly a hell of a lot easier than campaigning as the serving government. I'm sure you would agree with that.

    however, in what was basically a two horse race with UKIP losing their reason for existing and the Lib Dems being a dead duck I would have expected a tighter race.

    as I explained a while back in the Brexit thread, Corbyn had a nightmare with that. UKIP and Leave voters, economically, were largely traditional Labour voters. by campaigning and voting the opposite way I think he alienated himself and his party and led to a position of distrust. you can look back at my posts then and see that I was eagerly awaiting his input and to see this career campaigner in action when in the spotlight. his limp wristed approach was an instant turn off.

    it is easy to convince students to vote for you when you're offering free university. just ask Nick Clegg. however it is less easy to convince weather beaten and downtrodden voters that graft for pittance after you've spent your time arguing in favour of free movement of people that has decimated many industries that are proportionally more represented by the working classes.

    it was all uphill from there, for me. and he didn't do nearly enough. his statements on the terror attacks were weak. his explanations for the costings for his manifesto were basically non-existent and he had a shadow cabinet of London luvvies that have a disdain for the average person that they do not even bother to hide.

    he ended up winning three more seats than Gordon Brown managed. that doesn't signal much of a success in my book.

    I asked you yesterday to make your case for Corbyn. your response was generic platitudes. that, for me, says it all.

    with a better leader Labour will win the next general election. you can quote me on that.
    Its difficult to disagree with some of what you say. But this election was May's for the taking and she blew it! Corbyn has engaged and reached out to people and it's paid off. The conservatives took everyone's vote for granted and played on the whole Brexit popularity. Again, taking people for mugs and it backfired once again.

    I mean, May even chose to raise Fox hunting as if she was safe in the knowledge thinking that the whole election thing was a done deal. That she didn't have to work for her vote. Meanwhile, Corbyn reached out and communicated with the public. Went on to debate on T.V while Thersea May thought she didn't have to!

    Corbyn engaged with people. I'm convinced that's his make up and that's what won him his votes. You compare this to Gordon Brown but the election was May's for the taking and she blew it!

    It doesn't matter which way you turn it Corbyn has come out looking much better and rightly so.

    Forget Labour. How the hell can anyone trusting May to negotiate Brexit after all this? But, now what are everyone's thoughts on Corbyn negotiationing Brexit? Much better I suspect.

    I called the underhanded tactics when I first heard the Tories calling for the general election. And it hasn't worked. And im pleased about that.

    You can't argue who has come out better in this. Maye had a massive, huge advantage over Corbyn whon was even unpopular with some of his own in his party. Never mind the fact that a lot of the public UKIP voters thought May was the choice.

    To evaluate the situation now though, what a Fuc*ing mess! Now, instead of stepping down she limps on making us a complete laughing stock in Brussels.

    I was a solid OUT of the EU. Now mate, I beginning to think we're better off just staying in it.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post
    do you have a list of the swing states they won?

    I've had a bit of a look but can't find a proper list
    FFS, sorry, I realise I got that the wrong way around, it was "remain" constituencies where Labour made gains. I got that from a graphical analysis on BBC TV, no I couldn't find a list, but there are a few stats here. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40219338

    Edit: if you scroll down to the table at the bottom of that link and click on "show more seats" you get a full list of swing seats.
    Last edited by Pickleman1967; 09-06-2017 at 09:01 PM.
    He's magic you kno-oow, Mauricio Poch-ett-ino!

  8. #148
    One final poke in the eye for the Tories, Labour have just won Kensington!
    He's magic you kno-oow, Mauricio Poch-ett-ino!

  9. #149
    Not sure if i have said this here ,but even though the mere look of her annoys me and her bumbling was embarrassing ,it was just incredible to see Abbott absolutely smash her rivals in this election . after the absolutely disgraceful if not sackable treatment of her in the media just before her stepping down one would think she was dead in the water. but the loyalty of her followers who actually understand what she has done for them and the basic good of the English people would have none of it.
    THIS is why i love England because these folk still exist ,even if they may be more of a minority today than ever before .

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
    He also got more votes and a bigger share of the vote than David Cameron has had in either of his election wins.
    hoovering up extra votes in traditionally Red constituencies doesn't really mean much. Cameron won 330 seats in 2015, Corbyn won 262. that's all that really matters.

    I'm not surprised he got more votes than Cameron though to be fair, there were 4m UKIP voters up for grabs this time around. although, in any case, he wasn't up against Cameron, he was against May and nearly a million more votes went to May, not to mention all-important seats.


    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
    He has energised the youth in the country to get behind him and has succeeded in totally obliterating a seemingly unassailable Tory lead.
    that's some incredible chest thumping but the reality is all he has done is claw back the losses that Miliband made to get Labour back to Gordon Brown levels of electability. the Tories lost just 13 seats so claims of 'obliterating' their lead seems a bit fanciful to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
    The idea that now the momentum is with him and he has achieved what most people thought impossible he should now just quit is quite absurd!. I think the next general election will be much sooner that 4 years as well. Theresa May has no majority and a loose agreement with the DUP, there is no coalition contract in place and even with the DUP support she only has a majority of 2!. No government can last longer than a year like that with every slightly contentious issue being a very possible defeat for the government.
    The Tories next manifesto would, I'm sure, be far more sensible and centre ground than May's one for this election. it was obvious they'd alienate people with some of their policies and I don't think Corbyn did anything like enough to convince people he was capable of delivering his manifesto. he promised free stuff for all basically and still couldn't compete, I think that really says it all.

    he isn't the person to get Labour back in power, and nor are his right hand ladies Thornberry and Abbott.

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