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Thread: 2017 General Election

  1. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Pokerkings View Post
    Its difficult to disagree with some of what you say. But this election was May's for the taking and she blew it! Corbyn has engaged and reached out to people and it's paid off. The conservatives took everyone's vote for granted and played on the whole Brexit popularity. Again, taking people for mugs and it backfired once again.

    I mean, May even chose to raise Fox hunting as if she was safe in the knowledge thinking that the whole election thing was a done deal. That she didn't have to work for her vote. Meanwhile, Corbyn reached out and communicated with the public. Went on to debate on T.V while Thersea May thought she didn't have to!
    completely agree that she blew it. brainless electioneering - specifically to even raise a mention of fox hunting and then remove free school meals for infants was something that was certain to cost her votes. I can't fathom how she thought those would be winning policies. I get the principle on the meals thing but it is so obvious people would be p*ssed off by it.

    I'd be willing to bet she lost entire constituencies on that meals policy alone. moronic.

    personally speaking the TV debates do nothing for me. a load of twats shouting over each other with a load of morons whooping and cheering in the crowd with little consideration to what is actually being discussed. May doesn't have the personality for such things and I suspect she knew it. it probably did cost her credibility in the eyes of some though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pokerkings View Post
    Corbyn engaged with people. I'm convinced that's his make up and that's what won him his votes. You compare this to Gordon Brown but the election was May's for the taking and she blew it!

    It doesn't matter which way you turn it Corbyn has come out looking much better and rightly so.!
    I compare it to Gordon Brown simply on seats won. he's recovered Miliband's losses but remains a loser overall just like Brown. the difference is Brown is seen as a failure but Corbyn a success. that is simply down to Brown's total being a dramatic decline after Blair but Corbyn's total being a rise after Miliband.

    the two themselves are about 3/4 constituencies apart and yet the difference in perception is remarkable. I don't thin Corbyn has ocme out looking "much better". to me, he is a loser. an election (particularly for the Cons and Labour) is all about winning. if not a majority then at least the bigger number of seats. I can't see how it reflects well on the Labour party that such a trailing defeat is celebrated in this way. they didn't even do a spurs and 'run them close'. Corbyn was 55 seats behind. This means that even if Corbyn had formed an alliance with the SNP, Lib Dems and his old mates at Sinn Fein they would still not have got as many seats as May.

    that isn't success in any language.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pokerkings View Post
    Forget Labour. How the hell can anyone trusting May to negotiate Brexit after all this? But, now what are everyone's thoughts on Corbyn negotiationing Brexit? Much better I suspect.
    if you're giving me a straight choice I'd still choose May over Corbyn to lead the Brexit talks. Corbyn had his chance to state his case in the referendum and choked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pokerkings View Post
    I called the underhanded tactics when I first heard the Tories calling for the general election. And it hasn't worked. And im pleased about that.
    for sure. what I like about the British public is their relentless rebellion in being told what to think and how to think. they know when they're being taken advantage of and this is the second successive Tory PM that has had their fingers burnt by misreading and underestimating the British public. long may it continue that these mugs have their nose put out of joint.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pokerkings View Post
    You can't argue who has come out better in this. Maye had a massive, huge advantage over Corbyn whon was even unpopular with some of his own in his party. Never mind the fact that a lot of the public UKIP voters thought May was the choice..
    for me, 'coming out better' is meaningless. if you look solely at losses and gains then, of course, Corbyn 'looks better'. but while May has her feet up in Downing Street, Corbyn will be putting that shelf up in the living room he's been putting off for weeks.

    to illustrate the point, the Cons made more gains than anyone in Scotland and the SNP suffered significant losses. however the SNP remain the party in power as Seamus will rightly point out. winning is everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pokerkings View Post
    To evaluate the situation now though, what a Fuc*ing mess! Now, instead of stepping down she limps on making us a complete laughing stock in Brussels.

    I was a solid OUT of the EU. Now mate, I beginning to think we're better off just staying in it.
    I don't understand why she has made us a laughing stock though? both the Cons and Remain were pro-leave in their manifesto. the vast majority of the British population voted for one or the other. the Lib Dems were clear in their manifesto about sticking up a second referendum. Farron got even fewer Votes than even Nick Clegg did in 2015. The nation remains pro-Leave so I understand less why you would suddenly convert to Remain?

  2. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    Not sure if i have said this here ,but even though the mere look of her annoys me and her bumbling was embarrassing ,it was just incredible to see Abbott absolutely smash her rivals in this election . after the absolutely disgraceful if not sackable treatment of her in the media just before her stepping down one would think she was dead in the water. but the loyalty of her followers who actually understand what she has done for them and the basic good of the English people would have none of it.
    mate, in her constituency you could put a pig in a pink rosette up for election and the swine would win a landslide. its the second time in a year or so that she has feigned illness at a critical democratic period which underlines what a joke of a politician she is and has been exposed time and time again.

    whilst I am sure there are plenty of people that support her rhetoric, she really does enjoy one of the safest seats in the country.

    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    THIS is why i love England because these folk still exist ,even if they may be more of a minority today than ever before .
    You got this bit right. though the numbers are far higher than you probably think, you just discount them if their politics are not the same as yours.

  3. #153
    [QUOTE=Steely;1387032]
    mate, in her constituency you could put a pig in a pink rosette up for election and the swine would win a landslide. its the second time in a year or so that she has feigned illness at a critical democratic period which underlines what a joke of a politician she is and has been exposed time and time again.


    You cannot dispute her numbers after the battering she took in the press leading upon to this ,they should have dipped without question .
    I'm just glad people saw through this media bullying for what it was and public lynching ,even though she should have seen it coming.
    You don't spend 30 years in public office if you don't have something to offer mate , as much as she grates on my nerves with some of how she get her message across.



    whilst I am sure there are plenty of people that support her rhetoric, she really does enjoy one of the safest seats in the country.
    And i repeat ,if you took odds on her numbers dipping after the public humiliation the took in the weeks leading up ,they would be enormous!
    You won't get a more clearer slap in the face of the media than that result right there ,i for one could NOT believe it.



    You got this bit right. though the numbers are far higher than you probably think, you just discount them if their politics are not the same as yours.
    Not at all ! Most of my football mates have views completely in contrast to mine most out of sheer ignorance and i don't bite my tongue rather than them know ,but i understand where their FEAR comes from for the most part. I do not discount them at all ,but i do question ignorance and the false information they base their opinion from.

  4. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post


    You cannot dispute her numbers after the battering she took in the press leading upon to this ,they should have dipped without question .
    I'm just glad people saw through this media bullying for what it was and public lynching ,even though she should have seen it coming.
    You don't spend 30 years in public office if you don't have something to offer mate , as much as she grates on my nerves with some of how she get her message across.

    And i repeat ,if you took odds on her numbers dipping after the public humiliation the took in the weeks leading up ,they would be enormous!
    You won't get a more clearer slap in the face of the media than that result right there ,i for one could NOT believe it
    I don't dispute the numbers whatsoever. that constituency has remained in Labour hands since it was created and will remain so as long as I live. nobody with any knowledge of the area would have expected anything other than a landslide win for her. the additional votes can be accounted for by the increased volumes of hipsters that have moved into the area to 'compliment' the locals who would all be stereotypical Corbyn fans.

    I note that you've picked your words deliberately though without outright saying you think the slating of this woman is due to racism. A well trodden path indeed. she doesn't get criticised because she is black, she gets criticised because she is a foul, hypocritical, moronic fool. incidentally, she's no stranger to sweeping generalisations and racist remarks herself.

    as I said, you could put anything up in that ward to represent Labour and you'd win. easily.

    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    Not at all ! Most of my football mates have views completely in contrast to mine most out of sheer ignorance and i don't bite my tongue rather than them know ,but i understand where their FEAR comes from for the most part. I do not discount them at all ,but i do question ignorance and the false information they base their opinion from.
    yep, a differing opinion can only be from a position of ignorance and false information.

  5. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post
    I don't dispute the numbers whatsoever. that constituency has remained in Labour hands since it was created and will remain so as long as I live. nobody with any knowledge of the area would have expected anything other than a landslide win for her. the additional votes can be accounted for by the increased volumes of hipsters that have moved into the area to 'compliment' the locals who would all be stereotypical Corbyn fans.
    As much as i agree with what you are saying about her and i have stated the way have witnessed her conveying her message as been amateurish and sometimes seems to lean on guilt rather than cold hard facts . I could be wrong as i do not know enough about her . The one thing i will say is that in terms of "the struggle" she is a lightweight as are most people of African decent who live in Europe. Living in the US for almost 30 years has shown me that and you can eliminate your mate "black lives matter" from the forming of my opinion on that but almost every movement that preceded it.
    Forsome people though the mere mentioning of any wrongdoings of the west against people of colour is deemed to be racist .



    I note that you've picked your words deliberately though without outright saying you think the slating of this woman is due to racism. A well trodden path indeed. she doesn't get criticised because she is black, she gets criticised because she is a foul, hypocritical, moronic fool. incidentally, she's no stranger to sweeping generalisations and racist remarks herself.
    Mate the one thing you should know about me after years of debating on this forum .i call it how i see it and fear absolutely nothing in terms of what people anywhere think. I stopped short of calling it racist because i didn't have enough evidence to form THAT OPINION. It should be a way up call to you to know that for this point on . I don't say anything unless i can bak it up or if my gut and experience ABSOLUTELY points me in that direction. I know there is a disntcyisnct possibility the intensity of the targeting of her MAY have been racially tinged to some degree ,but when you don't help yup;sef by not being quipped with then knowledge to deal with your interviewer then you don't help yourself. Obviously it didn't mean much to those in her district who primarily vote for her because she is doing something right for them rather than being a lame duck token.I think people are smarter than that personally. I also think those names you have called her can be aimed at EVERY politician in the game today on every side.

    yep, a differing opinion can only be from a position of ignorance and false information.
    See you sued the word "ONLY" when i used the word "MOST" as opposed to ALL.
    Meaning that some have differing opinion to mine and it is not based on ignorance or false information .
    And some have enlightened me to some truths i have not been aware of since being away for these shores for a prolonged period of time.
    We agree to disagree and i can live with that. All in all i understand the Fear in some of the opinion they have ,but on some occasions it's just racial hatred that fuels them .

  6. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    Mate the one thing you should know about me after years of debating on this forum .i call it how i see it and fear absolutely nothing in terms of what people anywhere think. I stopped short of calling it racist because i didn't have enough evidence to form THAT OPINION. It should be a way up call to you to know that for this point on . I don't say anything unless i can bak it up or if my gut and experience ABSOLUTELY points me in that direction. I know there is a disntcyisnct possibility the intensity of the targeting of her MAY have been racially tinged to some degree ,but when you don't help yup;sef by not being quipped with then knowledge to deal with your interviewer then you don't help yourself. Obviously it didn't mean much to those in her district who primarily vote for her because she is doing something right for them rather than being a lame duck token.I think people are smarter than that personally. I also think those names you have called her can be aimed at EVERY politician in the game today on every side.
    during this election she was campaigning as Shadow Home Secretary. meaning she was effectively auditioning for one of the most important jobs in the cabinet. this is why she was handed so many media appearances and this is why she was scrutinised. she failed at every turn and fails in almost every tv appearance she makes. she is a liability to the Labour party but, of course, remains Corbyn's closest ally. I don't know of anyone, not even the most hardened Corbynite, who considers that Abbott is a competent politician fit for a lead role in government.

    it is true that those accusations can and are levelled at others. however she truly is a joke of a politician. as I said, even if you ignored everything else, these 'sickies' at a key point in both the Brexit and General Election stages highlight her utter cowardice, disrespect towards democracy and political incompetence.

    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    Meaning that some have differing opinion to mine and it is not based on ignorance or false information .
    And some have enlightened me to some truths i have not been aware of since being away for these shores for a prolonged period of time.
    fair enough, that acknowledgement is progress

  7. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post
    completely agree that she blew it. brainless electioneering - specifically to even raise a mention of fox hunting and then remove free school meals for infants was something that was certain to cost her votes. I can't fathom how she thought those would be winning policies. I get the principle on the meals thing but it is so obvious people would be p*ssed off by it.

    I'd be willing to bet she lost entire constituencies on that meals policy alone. moronic.

    personally speaking the TV debates do nothing for me. a load of twats shouting over each other with a load of morons whooping and cheering in the crowd with little consideration to what is actually being discussed. May doesn't have the personality for such things and I suspect she knew it. it probably did cost her credibility in the eyes of some though.



    I compare it to Gordon Brown simply on seats won. he's recovered Miliband's losses but remains a loser overall just like Brown. the difference is Brown is seen as a failure but Corbyn a success. that is simply down to Brown's total being a dramatic decline after Blair but Corbyn's total being a rise after Miliband.

    the two themselves are about 3/4 constituencies apart and yet the difference in perception is remarkable. I don't thin Corbyn has ocme out looking "much better". to me, he is a loser. an election (particularly for the Cons and Labour) is all about winning. if not a majority then at least the bigger number of seats. I can't see how it reflects well on the Labour party that such a trailing defeat is celebrated in this way. they didn't even do a spurs and 'run them close'. Corbyn was 55 seats behind. This means that even if Corbyn had formed an alliance with the SNP, Lib Dems and his old mates at Sinn Fein they would still not have got as many seats as May.

    that isn't success in any language.




    if you're giving me a straight choice I'd still choose May over Corbyn to lead the Brexit talks. Corbyn had his chance to state his case in the referendum and choked.



    for sure. what I like about the British public is their relentless rebellion in being told what to think and how to think. they know when they're being taken advantage of and this is the second successive Tory PM that has had their fingers burnt by misreading and underestimating the British public. long may it continue that these mugs have their nose put out of joint.



    for me, 'coming out better' is meaningless. if you look solely at losses and gains then, of course, Corbyn 'looks better'. but while May has her feet up in Downing Street, Corbyn will be putting that shelf up in the living room he's been putting off for weeks.

    to illustrate the point, the Cons made more gains than anyone in Scotland and the SNP suffered significant losses. however the SNP remain the party in power as Seamus will rightly point out. winning is everything.



    I don't understand why she has made us a laughing stock though? both the Cons and Remain were pro-leave in their manifesto. the vast majority of the British population voted for one or the other. the Lib Dems were clear in their manifesto about sticking up a second referendum. Farron got even fewer Votes than even Nick Clegg did in 2015. The nation remains pro-Leave so I understand less why you would suddenly convert to Remain?
    The reason Corbyn has been seen as a success is because this isn't really finished. Corbyn has a long game and if there is another election before the end of the year then you'd now have to say that Labour look very much in favor.

    I reckon even after this result, a lot of people are now taking Corbyn and Labour seriously and rightly so.

    Just look at what's unfolded over the last few days. All that guff on Corbyn and the IRA and now I'm a absolute desperate state to hold onto power the Tories have formed a coalition with the DUP which has in turn risked all peace agreements.......in Northern Ireland. You seriously couldn't make this up!!

    I don't think Corbyn is a loser at all. I think he's now someone who's turned a few heads. Look how he's mugged off Alistair Campbell and Sadiq Khan etc.. Can you imagine if if actually had the backing of all those Tories tribute MP's then their party would actually be in government.

    Corbyn showed leadership, he was clear about what he wanted to do, he engaged, he addressed the peoples concerns, he used the t.v debates and he came across much better than May. Look at her pathetic soundbites used over and over again. "Brexit means Brexit" "Get the Job done" "Strong and Stable". I actually can't believe you seriously believe this is the party and person the negotiate Brexit with the EU. She now doesn't even have a mandate ffs. Even what she asks for from the EU, she then has to pass if through a parliament she doesn't have.

    And now what? The Tories are now back tracking and promising the goods that Labour offered!!! After telling us their 'money tree' or whatever it was, would put us all in a financial apocalypse. They are now carbon copying theory same promises. Unbelievable. And this is the group leading the country.

    As I said before, Corbyn isn't perfect, but as we've seen, he'll make a much better leader this utter shower of dross.
    Arsene Wenger the "specialist in failure".

  8. #158

  9. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Pokerkings View Post
    The reason Corbyn has been seen as a success is because this isn't really finished. Corbyn has a long game and if there is another election before the end of the year then you'd now have to say that Labour look very much in favor..
    mate if there is another election before the end of the year then our country is beyond a joke. but, in any case, another election almost certainly wouldn't be headed up by May and you can be certain the Tories wouldn't be half as arrogant and foolish as they were this time round. they'd run a far better campaign while Corbyn would need a massive swing in his favour. I can't see it happening.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pokerkings View Post
    I reckon even after this result, a lot of people are now taking Corbyn and Labour seriously and rightly so.
    any Leader of the Opposition should be taken seriously. however all he has really done is swell vote numbers in what were already traditional Labour constituencies and university towns. this is all the more reason why the Tories wouldn't go into another election with such a sh*tshow of policies such as the school meal grab.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pokerkings View Post
    Just look at what's unfolded over the last few days. All that guff on Corbyn and the IRA and now I'm a absolute desperate state to hold onto power the Tories have formed a coalition with the DUP which has in turn risked all peace agreements.......in Northern Ireland. You seriously couldn't make this up!!.
    I think a threat to peace agreements is being overplayed somewhat (t isn't the DUP with the terrorists in their ranks) but one thing I hope that comes out of this mess is that a spotlight is shone on the religiously inspired laws and policies of NI. all those 'feminists' whinging about Trump 'grabbing a pussy' have somewhere to focus on closer to home. they'll need to actually tackle religious doctrine though which we know is taboo as far as they're concerned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pokerkings View Post
    I don't think Corbyn is a loser at all. I think he's now someone who's turned a few heads. Look how he's mugged off Alistair Campbell and Sadiq Khan etc.. Can you imagine if if actually had the backing of all those Tories tribute MP's then their party would actually be in government.
    but he doesn't have their backing which tells you something. he got 4.3m extra votes for just 4 seats more than Gordon Brown. that shows he is preaching to the converted. he isn't convincing others to buy into his ideas and that will always hold him back. rather than attack the marginals he sought to swell his numbers from within knowing full well that wont get him into power. he's the ultimate opposition leader, happy to protest but unwilling to lead.

    Labour leaders have resigned after winning more seats in general elections.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pokerkings View Post
    Corbyn showed leadership, he was clear about what he wanted to do, he engaged, he addressed the peoples concerns, he used the t.v debates and he came across much better than May. Look at her pathetic soundbites used over and over again. "Brexit means Brexit" "Get the Job done" "Strong and Stable". I actually can't believe you seriously believe this is the party and person the negotiate Brexit with the EU. She now doesn't even have a mandate ffs. Even what she asks for from the EU, she then has to pass if through a parliament she doesn't have.
    he played personality politics fairly well against a load of personality devoid opponents. that party and person got more votes and more constituency victories than your boy Corbyn so how on earth do you determine him to be better placed? as I said, in a straight choice I'd go with the higher numbers of votes. its democracy, innit.

    incidentally, on the subject of Brexit, the vultures are already circling with a view to stifling our exit. perhaps that was May's plan all along. create a divisive set of policies and go to the polls. lose the majority and derail Brexit.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pokerkings View Post
    And now what? The Tories are now back tracking and promising the goods that Labour offered!!! After telling us their 'money tree' or whatever it was, would put us all in a financial apocalypse. They are now carbon copying theory same promises. Unbelievable. And this is the group leading the country.

    As I said before, Corbyn isn't perfect, but as we've seen, he'll make a much better leader this utter shower of dross.
    that's exactly what I said would happen on the day of the results. it is a positive thing, a softened Tory policy with the better bits of Labours brought in. as always the sensible position is between the two of them.

  10. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post
    hoovering up extra votes in traditionally Red constituencies doesn't really mean much. Cameron won 330 seats in 2015, Corbyn won 262. that's all that really matters.

    I'm not surprised he got more votes than Cameron though to be fair, there were 4m UKIP voters up for grabs this time around. although, in any case, he wasn't up against Cameron, he was against May and nearly a million more votes went to May, not to mention all-important seats.




    that's some incredible chest thumping but the reality is all he has done is claw back the losses that Miliband made to get Labour back to Gordon Brown levels of electability. the Tories lost just 13 seats so claims of 'obliterating' their lead seems a bit fanciful to me.



    The Tories next manifesto would, I'm sure, be far more sensible and centre ground than May's one for this election. it was obvious they'd alienate people with some of their policies and I don't think Corbyn did anything like enough to convince people he was capable of delivering his manifesto. he promised free stuff for all basically and still couldn't compete, I think that really says it all.

    he isn't the person to get Labour back in power, and nor are his right hand ladies Thornberry and Abbott.
    Pokers has already pointed out why this was such a great election for Labour and Corbyn and all I would add is that this election was the first time in 20 years that Labour actually gained seats!. What kind of party would get rid of a leader who does that?!.

    It looks as if the PM is now going to have to give ground on her 'Hard Brexit' plan and seek to keep the UK in the single market. How weird that May says 'No deal is better than a bad deal' when dealing with the EU but 'Any deal is better than no deal' when dealing with her new partners, the homophobic climate change deniers.

    The funniest thing to come out of this election is seeing all the Labour MPs who were willing to stab Corbyn in the back, like Chuka Umunna and Owen Smith, now admitting they got it wrong and saying they would serve in his shadow cabinet.

    In other news Tim Farron has stood down as Lib Dem leader after continuous questions about aspects of his Christian beleifs have taken its toll. In a speech he said - “To be a political leader – especially of a progressive, liberal party in 2017 – and to live as a committed Christian, to hold faithfully to the Bible’s teaching, has felt impossible for me.”

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