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Thread: North Korea

  1. #11
    Never fails to make me laugh when Specnur gets it completely wrong and makes himself look a utter mug.

    www.libertyinnorthkorea.org/learn-nk-challenges/

    No Freedom of Movement

    It is illegal for the North Korean people to leave their country without the regime’s permission, and the regime attempts to restrict the people’s movement even inside their own country. If you wish to travel to another part of the country, you are supposed to have a specific purpose and obtain permission from your work unit. If you do not live in Pyongyang, the showcase capital where most resources are concentrated, you will likely be denied access. The regime has also forcibly relocated hundreds of thousands of North Koreans to less favorable parts of the country as a form of punishment and political persecution.

    Meet Hae Ri

    "In North Korea, you need a certificate to move to different places, which is especially difficult for Kaesong because there is a lot of exchange going on there with South Korea.”

    No Freedom of Speech

    Criticism of the regime or the leadership in North Korea, if reported, is enough to make you and your family ‘disappear’ from society and end up in a political prison camp. It goes without saying that there is no free media inside the country. The only opinion allowed to be voiced inside the country is the regime’s.
    No Freedom of Information
    Knowing the threat that outside information poses to their propaganda and ideology, and ultimately its control over the people, the regime has invested massive resources in trying to maintain an information blockade and keep its monopoly as the only source of information and ideas to the North Korean people. It is illegal to own a tunable radio in North Korea, there is no access to the Internet (except for a few hand-picked and monitored officials), and North Korean landlines and mobile phones cannot make international calls.

    "I can study whatever I want, whereas college students in North Korea can study only what the North Korean regime allows them to study.” - Hye Won

    Forced Leadership Adulation

    The regime forces the people to participate in the maintenance of personality cults around the Kim leaders that have ruled the country for over 60 years. Propaganda starts in nursery school and a large proportion of the curriculum for all students—even at university—is dedicated to memorizing the ‘history’ of the Kim family. State media provides a constant stream of myths about the Kims and lauds the sacrifices they supposedly make for the people. Millions of labor-hours that could be used developing the economy have to be spent idolizing the leaders instead.

    No Religious Freedom

    Organized religion is seen as a potential threat to the regime and therefore nothing apart from token churches built as a facade of religious freedom for foreign visitors are allowed. Thousands of Buddhists and Christians have been purged and persecuted throughout the history of North Korea. People caught practicing or spreading religion in secret are punished extremely harshly, including by public execution or being sent to political prison camps.

    Chronic Food Shortages

    The regime’s refusal to effectively reform its failed agricultural policies, combined with susceptibility to adverse climate conditions (made worse by environmental mismanagement), and an inability to purchase necessary agricultural inputs or food imports mean that the North Korean people have faced food shortages ever since the 1990s. Millions of malnourished children and babies, pregnant women and nursing mothers bear the brunt of the shortages today. This has left an entire generation of North Koreans with stunted growth and a higher susceptibility to health problems.

    Joseph talks from the TED stage
    “When I lived in North Korea, all I worried about was getting food.” - Joseph Kim



    The regime claims that it provides universal health care to its people. In reality, the majority of the public healthcare system collapsed in the 1990s, with only prioritized hospitals in areas such as Pyongyang kept functioning. Elsewhere, health services and medicine are only available to those that can afford it. Ordinary North Koreans are therefore afflicted by easily preventable or curable poverty-related diseases, such as tuberculosis and cataracts.

    Songbun Political Apartheid System

    The North Korean regime has invested an incredible amount of time and resources creating the songbun system, a form of political apartheid that ascribes you with a level of perceived political loyalty based on your family background. Your particular songbun level (there are 51 of them) can then restrict your life opportunities, including where you can live, educational opportunities, Party membership, military service, occupation, and treatment by the criminal justice system. Any perceived political infractions by your family will lead to your songbun being demoted.

    "The North Korean society that has sprouted from the ruins of the division of Korea and the Korean War has not done away with class antagonisms. It has but established new classes, new conditions of oppression, new forms of struggle in place of the old ones."



    Five political prison camps hold an estimated 80,000 to 120,000 people. Some of them are the size of cities, and they have existed five times as long as the Nazi concentration camps and twice as long as the Soviet Gulags. Many people imprisoned in these camps were not guilty of any crime, but were related to someone who supposedly committed a political crime. Often they have no idea what that crime was, and even children who are born in the camps are raised as prisoners because their ‘blood is guilty’. Forced labor, brutal beatings, and death are commonplace. The regime denies the existence of these camps, but multiple survivor testimonies have been corroborated by former guards as well as satellite images.
    Collective Punishment
    In North Korea, if your relative is persecuted for “anti-state” or “anti-socialist” crimes, then you and three generations of your family can be punished for it. The aim is to remove from society the whole family unit to prevent any dissent from emerging in the future, and also to deter martyrs who might sacrifice themselves for a political cause but would not want to sacrifice their whole family.
    Public Executions
    The North Korean regime publicly executes citizens who have been accused of a variety of crimes, including petty theft. Whole communities, including children, are brought out to watch these executions, which are designed to instill fear amongst the people of doing anything that could be seen as against the regime’s wishes.
    Refugee Crisis
    The North Korean regime makes it illegal to leave the country without state permission, but every year thousands of North Koreans still risk their lives to escape a combination of a lack of freedoms and economic hardship; in North Korea these are inextricably linked. If caught trying to escape, or if caught in China and sent back, they are at risk of harsh punishments including brutal beatings, forced labor, forced abortions, torture, and internment in a political prison camp. Those suspected of having had contact with South Koreans or Christians while in China receive the most severe punishments.

    North Korean refugees’ well-founded fear of persecution if repatriated means that they should be protected under international refugee law. However, the Chinese government prioritizes its political relationship with Pyongyang and does not recognize them as refugees. Instead they label them as “economic migrants” in an attempt to justify the forcible repatriation of thousands of North Korean refugees every year.

    Since coming to power, the Kim Jong-un leadership has cooperated with the Chinese authorities to tighten border security. Recent defectors have told us of increased physical border security, increased risk associated with bribing border guards, and heightened punishments for people trying to escape. As a result, the number of refugees managing to arrive in South Korea has decreased by almost half.
    test image Read More
    Refugee Rescues
    We rescue refugees without cost or condition, and ensure their safety and dignity on their journey to freedom.
    Refugee Exploitation
    North Korean refugees in China live in a precarious and sometimes desperate situation. They fear harsh punishment or even death if they are caught and sent back to North Korea, but many do not have the resources or contacts to get themselves out of China. Their illegal status forces them to work in invisible industries and leaves them vulnerable to exploitation by unscrupulous employers and sex traffickers, as they have no recourse to any authorities.

    Sex Trafficking

    Many North Korean women who escape North Korea become victims of sex trafficking. China’s lack of marriageable women, especially in the rural areas of its Northeast provinces, creates a demand for North Korean women who are at risk of being forced to work in brothels or online sex chatrooms, or are bought and sold as wives. North Korean women have been sold for as little as a few hundred to a few thousands dollars in China.
    test image Read More

    JOY’S STORY: TRAFFICKED IN CHINA
    "She shook her head and told me my only option was to be sold into marriage to a Chinese man..."

    Stateless Children

    Children born to North Korean refugee mothers and Chinese fathers can face difficulties obtaining hukou (household registration papers) because of their mother’s illegal status. This can leave the children stateless, recognized by neither the Chinese or North Korean governments, and denied basic rights such as access to education and other state services. There are estimated to be around 10,000 children born to North Korean refugee mothers in China.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    never fails to make me laugh when Europeans refer to older cultures as "3rd world".
    It's one of the most common white supremacist comments there is out there yet people don't seem to accept it because it is the norm.

    I do't think this is anything like Saddam's regime however ,the only time remember Saddam "rattling" his saber was when threats of invasion by the west started, this however seems to be more unjustifiably and intentionally provocative. I don't know what is driving this bloke to do what he is doing IF he is doing it ,and what makes him so confident ,given America's willingness to invade a country at the drop of hat in the past .
    Maybe it's because North Korea has nothing in that country worth stealing (such as oil). If japan were as big as allies as the USA would like them believe they would have had ships ready at their shores months ago.
    They have the backing of the U.N. so why the delay in action , not that i support any action of the physical nature .
    America doesn't give a toss about Japan ,just like they didn't give a toss about the Jews being gassed in Europe ,because there was noting in it for them.
    Oh BS Specs, do your homework, the North Koreans are impoverished, putting food on the table is a real struggle for many of them. They live under an extremely violent and repressive regime, the government treats their own people like sh*t. They have prison death camps for "political subversives" (i.e. pretty much f*cking anyone who dares to do anything but cheer the government like a demented cheerleader in that familiar Stalinist style). Third World all day long mate, all their resources go into the military; and they still have a sh*tty tinpot army btw.
    As for Iraq, remember how they invaded Kuwait and summarily executed civilians? Remember that Kuwait was oil rich at the time? Why do you think Iraq invaded? Your one eyed view of history is getting boring mate.
    He's magic you kno-oow, Mauricio Poch-ett-ino!

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Pickleman1967 View Post
    Oh BS Specs, do your homework, the North Koreans are impoverished, putting food on the table is a real struggle for many of them. They live under an extremely violent and repressive regime, the government treats their own people like sh*t. They have prison death camps for "political subversives" (i.e. pretty much f*cking anyone who dares to do anything but cheer the government like a demented cheerleader in that familiar Stalinist style). Third World all day long mate, all their resources go into the military; and they still have a sh*tty tinpot army btw.
    As for Iraq, remember how they invaded Kuwait and summarily executed civilians? Remember that Kuwait was oil rich at the time? Why do you think Iraq invaded? Your one eyed view of history is getting boring mate.
    Again 3 world because you are using the European standard of what that means ,which are all the things that you listed .
    But in reality Asia existed before Europe ,so if anything Europe is a 3rd world .
    I just remember the fact that Europeans (England in particular)were living in the dark ages before the moors came through there, no universities no libraries and 95% or maybe worse illiteracy rate. Yet Europe claim top be FIRST world. Shit , they didn't even have soap before they rolled through there think about that. It's as a cesspool in comparison to Africa.
    They just can't stop Lying to you and you still suck it up mate!
    I couldn't care less about how that man runs his country ,but the one thing i have learnt is not to trust anyone from Europe delivering the message about what is going on over there that's for sure . If you want to trust what you read for those outlets then that's on you! I'm old enough to know better. They have lied about everything from the start of their interaction with people across the globe in order to get what they want and didn't stop with the Invasion of Iraq or anywhere else . So why should i believe what they say about NK.

    Iraq invaded Kuwait because Kuwait refused to stop side drilling Oil for the Iraq side of the border ffs and you have the audacity ton talk about 1 eyed view.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    Again 3 world because you are using the European standard of what that means ,which are all the things that you listed .
    But in reality Asia existed before Europe ,so if anything Europe is a 3rd world .
    I just remember the fact that Europeans (England in particular)were living in the dark ages before the moors came through there, no universities no libraries and 95% or maybe worse illiteracy rate. Yet Europe claim top be FIRST world. Shit , they didn't even have soap before they rolled through there think about that. It's as a cesspool in comparison to Africa.
    They just can't stop Lying to you and you still suck it up mate!
    That is just semantics, of course my use of the word "Third World" refers to national wealth, quality of life, technological advancement etc. Nobody uses it in that "historic" sense in the 21st century. I don't buy your conspiracy theory stuff about being lied to btw, I've heard enough testimony from Koreans who have escaped to live abroad to know that hardship and savage cruelty from the government are part of everyday life for the ordinary people.

    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    I couldn't care less about how that man runs his country
    You should care mate, whole families held in concentration camps? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoeryo...entration_camp I found it appalling to hear the testimony of people who have experienced that hell where life is as cheap as dirt. Do your own research if you think it is all propaganda from the "evil West", you are beginning to sound like Almeida! I can't tell you how tiresome I found the conspiracy theories, all they do is rubbish everything that comes from "official channels" while not providing anything convincing as an alternative version of reality.
    He's magic you kno-oow, Mauricio Poch-ett-ino!

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Pickleman1967 View Post
    That is just semantics, of course my use of the word "Third World" refers to national wealth, quality of life, technological advancement etc. Nobody uses it in that "historic" sense in the 21st century. I don't buy your conspiracy theory stuff about being lied to btw, I've heard enough testimony from Koreans who have escaped to live abroad to know that hardship and savage cruelty from the government are part of everyday life for the ordinary people.
    Of course ,but it is a misleading phrase! Wealth ,faulty of life technologic advancement!
    I could question each one of those as anything that puts your 1st world in the lofty position we are lead to believe it is in.
    Westerners and their technological advancement have destroyed this planet pretty much ,they live completely out of sync with nature .NO other race of people did so before them. Wealth without question it is pretty clear that wealth in its excess which is used by the west makes places and people soulless . You got empty buildings worth millions in Nottinghill London bought and owned by Russian billionaires leaving a area that was buzzing with excitement when i hung around there in the 80's and absolute host town in places . You look at Man city a soulless club because of wealth and you lot at celebrities like Kanye West and the like.
    I don't know who to trust when it comes to North Korea and what gets on there.


    You should care mate, whole families held in concentration camps? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoeryo...entration_camp I found it appalling to hear the testimony of people who have experienced that hell where life is as cheap as dirt. Do your own research if you think it is all propaganda from the "evil West", you are beginning to sound like Almeida! I can't tell you how tiresome I found the conspiracy theories, all they do is rubbish everything that comes from "official channels" while not providing anything convincing as an alternative version of reality.
    The thing is is that that how he chooses to run his country if that is in fact the case at all.
    It has nothing to do with me or anyone else other than the people of that country . If they don't like it they can revolt.
    But foreign meddling in overseas political affairs has to stop.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post


    well that's kind of the problem, it would be a suicide mission. as you have mentioned before in a slightly different context, self-preservation dictates the locals MUST put up with it, however badly they suffer.
    majority rule mate ! If feel sorry for anyone that has to toe the line in a system they don't agree with ,but that's not my problem.
    We could go the world over identifying things people do in foreign lands that we don't agree with ,but why North Korea before Saudi Arabia.
    Why North Korea before America that has systematically mistreated black folks based solely on what they look like even after nearly 400 years of unpaid labour building that economy?

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by specnur View Post
    We could go the world over identifying things people do in foreign lands that we don't agree with ,but why North Korea before Saudi Arabia.
    Both have been allowed to exercise their crap quite freely by the west. The problem here is that North Korea now possibly have missiles capable of sending nuclear bombs all over the world and are constantly threatening everybody.

    And Korean old culture has as much to do with prison camps as Japanese one has with waifu blankets. Less even.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by IamMelGibson View Post
    Both have been allowed to exercise their crap quite freely by the west. The problem here is that North Korea now possibly have missiles capable of sending nuclear bombs all over the world and are constantly threatening everybody.

    And Korean old culture has as much to do with prison camps as Japanese one has with waifu blankets. Less even.
    So what if they got nukes ,so do a lot of countries including amerce who seems to be the only ones invading countries at will.
    So who to fear really !
    There is no way a Nuke leave NK and get to any country in the west or America ,it will be taken down before it clears mongolia ffs! And no way will it hit Japan because America have it covered . That is unless they WANT it to happen for other reasons .

  9. #19
    North Koreans now threatening to shoot down US bombers as situation continues to get worse.

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